n Episode 9 of Lean Coffee Talk, Mark Graban and Jamie Flinchbaugh begin with World Cup observations that turn into a broader discussion about process measures, results, technology, officiating, and why referees are rarely the primary reason a team loses.

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Over coffee—cold brew for Mark and a pour-over for Jamie—they examine Toyota’s work with coffee farmers in Thailand. Through irrigation improvements, standardized work, experimentation, and a long-term focus on quality, the farmers raised their coffee’s cupping score from commercial grade to specialty quality.

The conversation then moves to automation in the auto industry. Mark and Jamie discuss Hyundai’s plans to deploy Boston Dynamics’ humanoid Atlas robots, worker concerns about job security, and the potential to use automation for work that is dirty, dangerous, or dull. They also examine the misleading appearance of cause and effect when GM lays off more than 1,000 workers while adding 50 robots.

They then turn to Ford’s long-running struggle to make quality a lasting priority. What does it mean to build a quality culture? How much responsibility belongs to manufacturing, engineering, product design, or leadership? And why must engineers go to the gemba to understand whether a product is realistically—and robustly—designed for production?

Finally, Mark and Jamie critique Burger King’s attempt at a quality turnaround, including its new “Your Way Champion” role. Is this another attempt to inspect quality into the product, or a useful shift in management attention toward customers and execution? They also consider the risks of advertising an improved customer experience before the operating system can deliver it consistently.

Mark Graban and Jamie Flinchbaugh sit down with single-origin coffees and a 1987 GM Confidential report Mark pulled from the Don Ephlin papers at Wayne State's Reuther Library. The document, "NUMMI Management Practices: Executive Summary," lays out five management strategies behind the joint venture's success and the line that ties them together: "The key to NUMMI's success is not its tools or techniques, but the management philosophy that gives meaning to them." So why couldn't GM replicate it?

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Before NUMMI, the conversation runs through:

• Jamie's report from a Lehigh symposium on AI in supply chain (Penske, NFI, Crayola, Sharp Services) and judging Lehigh's entrepreneurial pitch competition
• Mark's two-week run at the LEI Lean Summit in Houston and Shingo Connect in San Diego, plus a regional FIRST robotics competition
• AI in continuous improvement, including Mark's Socratic Lean coach (free 48-hour trial)
• Single-origin coffee: Jamie's Peru from Huabal / San Pablo, Mark's Burundi Cankuzo Province bourbon-variety bean from Elliott Coffee in Dayton, KY (sourced via JNP Coffee), and the power dynamics the fair-trade label doesn't fix
• A Lean Whiskey detour on the rumored Sazerac, Brown-Forman, and Pernod Ricard moves, the bullwhip effect rippling back to a shuttered Kentucky barrel mill, and the cautionary tale of Stroh's (now back, brewed at Brew Detroit)

The main segment works through the NUMMI report's five management strategies, why GM tried to redistribute the original "NUMMI commandos" one at a time, why Toyota deliberately avoided hiring auto-industry people for Georgetown, what NUMMI didn't solve (product design, activist investors, the UAW's missed opening), and where Bob Lutz's Car Guys vs. Bean Counters fits in. Mark also notes the Toyota Way 2001 document still isn't freely available online. Some lessons you have to go find.

To close: Big Mistakes (Dan Levy, Netflix), and, prompted by the Artemis II launch, the case for Apollo 13 and Hidden Figures as the best of the genre.

Resources mentioned:

• NUMMI Management Practices: Executive Summary, January 1987 (Don Ephlin papers, Walter P. Reuther Library, Wayne State University)
• Bob Lutz, Car Guys vs. Bean Counters
• Sweet Maria's green coffee
• Elliott Coffee, Dayton, KY / JNP Coffee
• Brew Detroit (Stroh's)
• Big Mistakes (Netflix)
• Mark's Socratic Lean coach (48-hour free trial)
• Jamie's newsletter (Apollo 13 / strategic problem-solving in flight)

How many KPIs are too many — and how do leaders know which metrics actually matter?

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In Episode 7 of Lean Coffee Talk, Mark Graban and Jamie Flinchbaugh explore how organizations overload themselves with metrics, why some “red” indicators fail to drive action, and how to evaluate whether KPIs are still relevant. They also discuss the role of change management in Lean transformations, why people don’t resist change itself but fear things getting worse, and how engaging employees early leads to more sustainable improvement.

Along the way, they connect lessons from Olympic controversies, construction megaprojects, coffee brewing methods, and even Starbucks stir sticks to core Lean ideas about customer value and “jobs to be done.”

A thoughtful, wide-ranging conversation about leadership, measurement, culture, and curiosity.

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In this episode, Mark Graban and Jamie Flinchbaugh respond to listener questions about system design, leadership behavior, and navigating misguided Lean requirements.

They explore why some systems—like college football playoffs or improvement quotas—fail to deliver their intended results, and what leaders can do instead. Topics include cultivating psychological safety in higher education, getting Lean started when the broader organization isn’t supportive, and how to redirect “check-the-box” improvement mandates into something more meaningful.

Along the way, they also cover fresh coffee beans, local roasters, AI-generated music playlists, and a low-key holiday performance by Brandi Carlile—because culture matters too.

💡 Submit your question (and maybe win a Lean Coffee Talk mug!) at: LeanBlog.org/coffeequestions

In this short bonus episode of Lean Coffee Talk, hosts Mark Graban and Jamie Flinchbaugh share an invitation for you to help shape future conversations.

They’re asking for your toughest, most thought-provoking questions about Lean, leadership, culture, and continuous improvement — the ones without easy answers. Mark and Jamie will select some listener questions to feature in upcoming episodes and share their perspectives on each.

Whether you’re a Lean practitioner, leader, or curious learner, your question could spark a conversation that helps others, too.

Hosts: Mark Graban — LeanBlog.org Jamie Flinchbaugh — JFlinch.com

In Season 2, Episode 5, Mark Graban and Jamie Flinchbaugh are going back in time (apologies to Huey Lewis and the News) to the 1990s and examining companies that were iconic then and trying to find new ground today. But we start with coffee mugs - our most vintage mugs. A coffee mug can make coffee better, or ruin it, or bring back memories. The vessel may not be more important than what’s in it, but it’s up there. And this is our first, but perhaps not our last, Miss Piggy reference.

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Before we delve into AOL finally ending its dial-up service, we take a deep dive into Starbucks’ new CEO and his efforts to revive the brand. Both the substance and the approach to decision-making matter here. On the approach, making too many decisions at the top can undermine those you’re asking to make their decisions, but the right decisions in the right way can break things loose or shift your culture.

However, this also raises the question of what Starbucks customers value and how to consistently deliver that value. There are many systematic barriers put in the way of baristas trying to deliver value. Will Starbucks and its CEO remove those barriers and find value? We will see (or at least their customers will).

We wrap up sharing our experiences with jazz flutist Frank Wess and the new movie "Spinal Tap II."

• MiiR carafe - via Amazon
• WSJ on Starbucks' efforts to reestablish its customer value
• And their efforts to get baristas to smile
• AOL shuts down dial-up
• The Machine That Changed The World
• MACI
• Improvement Nerds Podcast with Mark
• Jazz artist Frank Wess on Spotify
• Spinal Tap II: The End Continues
• Podcast feed at LeanCoffeeTalk.com or jflinch.com/leancoffeetalk
• Please review us and follow!

Please review us and follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast platform!

In Episode 4 (Season 2), Mark Graban and Jamie Flinchbaugh are joined by the hosts of the Just-in-Time Cafe podcast, Elisabeth Swan and Tracy O’Rourke. This is the second joint episode, the first being episode 45 of Lean Whiskey. In part, we celebrate the launch of Tracy and Elisabeth’s new book, the 2nd edition of "The Problem-Solver’s Toolkit," which we discuss on the show.

We talk quite a bit about our respective daily routines, beginning with how coffee fits into our day. This includes peaceful time, walk time, time with family, and time for health. Coffee fits in many different ways. And once again, Jamie sounds like Paul Giamatti in the movie Sideways in his avoidance of Starbucks. We also share our personal routines that help us stay focused and productive. There are different flavors and tools, but there are definitely some common themes across the group that prioritize our calendars and our to-do priorities over our email inbox.

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In a meta discussion about podcasts during a podcast, we talk about the trend towards longer podcasts and video podcasts, as the NY Times covered. It is only a coincidence that this episode went a bit longer as well. We explore this trend, why it exists despite some contrary trends, and how we prefer consuming podcasts as well. We finish as always with our cultural shares, ranging from Charlie Brown to Brad Pitt.

In Season 2, Episode 3, Mark Graban and Jamie Flinchbaugh both share specific episodes of their other podcasts. Jamie shares his People Solve Problems episode featuring Crayola CEO Pete Ruggiero, and Mark shares a repeat guest for My Favorite Mistake with NFL Players Association Dr. Thom Mayer to talk about the experiment of new kickoff formats and the impact (pun intended) on concussions. We then share our coffees, with the caffeine-laden Red Eye being the drink of choice, including Detroit Lions head coach Dan Campbell’s extreme coffee order.

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They then jump into lean coffee discussion format covering a wide range of topics. We discuss why Americans aren’t filling the half-million manufacturing jobs already available, two new lean books on problem solving and hoshin kanri, and why it may be ok for it only to take 2 days to select Pope Leo XIV but five rounds of interviews to hire a remote worker (picking up on a popular meme).

The discussion then turns to the MIT Sloan School of Management Work / 25 online conference, beginning with a bit of a rant about a poorly run event that wraps up in lessons of how to respond to customers when you do make mistakes. Then two speaker topics were explored from the conference, including Sharon Parker’s SMART model for how to prevent burnout in your employees, and then moving to Lynda Gratton’s presentation on the value of mastery in your career.

The final segment of cultural shares includes two items to watch, featuring Paul Rudd and Tim Robinson in Friendship (in theaters now) and National Geographic’s Endurance about Sir Ernest Shackleton's journey on Disney Plus. We hope you enjoy the listen!

• Jamie’s podcast with Crayola CEO Pete Ruggiero
• Mark’s podcast with NFL Player Association’s Dr. Thom Mayer
• Dan Campbell’s coffee order
• NPR on manufacturing job openings
• The Problem Solver’s Toolkit 2nd Edition
• Managing on Purpose: Using hoshin kanri to develop strategy, align teams, grow leaders, and innovate your enterprise
• Jamie’s Short on the difficulties in deciding between two options
• Jamie on YouTube about leveraging your superpower
• Mark’s Cultural Shares:
  • SNL Roundball Rock sketch
  • Netflix: I Think You Should Leave
  • Netflix: Detroiters
  • “Friendship” movie trailer
• Podcast feed at LeanCoffeeTalk.com or jflinch.com/leancoffeetalk
• Please review us and follow!