My guest in this episode is Martin Dowson, a design and transformation leader who’s passionate about elevating the role of design as a strategic force for business growth.

With over two decades of experience across Financial Services, Telcos, Media, and more. He’s built and led design teams, established Centres of Excellence, and guided organisations through complex transformations that align design with commercial outcomes.

Martin went from reading our service design book hoping to solve a logistics problem (you couldn’t order lobsters on a Wednesday at Sainsbury’s) to spending six years leading design strategy at Lloyd's Banking Group.

We talk about what happens when consultants go in-house, why experienced internal voices often get heard less than external ones saying the same thing, and whether AI has the same fundamental scaling problem as the car.

Timestamps
00:00 Intro — Martin's background across financial services, telecoms and media
01:00 How Martin and Andy first met at RBS in 2015, and reading Service Design to solve a lobster logistics problem at Sainsbury's
04:30 Going in-house after consulting — why your voice gets heard less the moment you cross the threshold
07:30 The question organisations never ask: why isn't this happening spontaneously already?
14:00 What it actually takes to embed design capability in a large organisation versus leaving behind blueprints and concepts
28:00 Measuring design's contribution to business outcomes — the gap between outputs and impact
45:00 Design leadership in the AI era — what changes and what doesn't
55:00 Why organisations mistake motion for progress, and how incentive structures block transformation
01:05:50 AI has the same fundamental problem as the car — it doesn't scale cleanly, and success makes the resource problem worse not better
01:10:30 The one small thing with outsized impact: our definition of success in education

Martin
- LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/designled
- Web: https://liminaldesignoffice.com
- Podcast https://beingliminal.com

Andy
- Website: https://www.polaine.com
- Newsletter: https://pln.me/nws
- Podcast: https://pln.me/p10
- Design Leadership Coaching: https://polaine.com/coaching
- Courses: https://courses.polaine.com
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/apolaine/
- Bluesky: https://andypolaine.bsky.social
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@apolaine

My guest in this episode is Joel Bailey, product and service director at Arwen.ai, a four-year-old marketing technology startup that uses AI to help brands to manage and moderate their social media comments at scale.

Joel brings 25 years of experience working in service design roles, leading change and building new stuff for a diverse range of organisations. We talked about his journey into Service Design, Service Design and AI, navigating AI and social media, the future of design and much more.

Note: Given the fast pace of developments in AI, I should point out that we recorded this in June 2025. I had a big backlog...

00:00 Introduction to Service Design and AI
04:50 The Journey to Service Design
10:00 Understanding Service as an Outcome
15:08 The Role of AI in Social Media Management
20:11 Challenges of Moderation on Social Media
25:32 The Evolution of Business Models
26:36 The Role of AI in Startups
29:13 Navigating AI and Content Moderation
30:20 Understanding AI Bias and Ethics
31:43 Engaging with AI in Social Media
35:11 The Future of Design and AI
40:21 Creativity in a Fast-Paced Environment
44:56 The Importance of Service in Design

Power of Ten is a show about design operating at all levels of zoom, from thoughtful detail to changes in organisation, society and the world, hosted by design leadership coach, Andy Polaine.

In this episode Andy Polaine speaks to design leader, Alan Colville, exploring the nuances of design leadership, the importance of embracing conflict, the dynamics of communication, and how small changes in how we communicate can lead to significant positive outcomes.

Links
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Alan
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- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alancolville/

Andy
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- Website: https://www.polaine.com
- Newsletter: https://pln.me/nws
- Podcast: https://pln.me/p10
- Design Leadership Coaching: https://polaine.com/coaching
- Courses: https://courses.polaine.com
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/apolaine/
- Bluesky: https://andypolaine.bsky.social
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@apolaine