On this episode of the Unlearn podcast, hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn connect with Eron Sunando, Asana's Head of Channels & Alliances. Fresh from Asana's Partner Summit, Eron brings a unique perspective on how partnerships can simplify the increasingly complex world of business technology.

Drawing from his globe-trotting career that spans from UBS to Salesforce, Eron unpacks the challenges facing today's businesses – from overwhelmed SMB owners to sales teams juggling multiple tools. He shares an insider's look at Asana's fresh approach to partnerships, including their new partner program and the game-changing AI Studio. Join us for a practical conversation about reducing tech complexity, building meaningful partnerships, and finding the sweet spot between AI automation and the human touch in partner management.

Chapters -

00:00 - Introduction and Eron’s career journey

04:20 - Complexity of modern tech stacks

10:00 - Reducing Complexities for SMBs

16:00 - Asana's Partner Summit and Program Relaunch

22:00 - Partnerships with MasterCard and Other Ecosystem Players

28:00 - Balancing Competency-Based and Outcome-Based Partner Programs

34:00 - Asana's Use of AI and the Launch of AI Studio

40:00 - Managing Partner Relationships with Asana's Internal Tools

45:00 - AI and Partner Management

50:00 - Asana's AI Studio and the Shift Towards Customizable AI Workflows

52:00 - Evolving Partner Program Structure

Key Takeaways -

1. Complexity of Modern Tech Stacks: Customers, especially SMBs, are overwhelmed by the growing number of applications and tools they need to manage, highlighting the need for partners to simplify and integrate these solutions.

2. Asana's Flexible Partner Program: Asana is launching a new partner program with distinct paths for different partner types (solution, services, tech, referral), allowing for a more tailored approach to partner engagement.

3. Leveraging AI for Partner Management: While AI can automate certain partner management tasks, the human touch remains crucial for building strategic relationships and providing customized support. Asana's AI Studio offers a flexible, customizable platform for partners to create AI-driven workflows.

4. Centralized Partner Relationship Management: Asana uses its own collaborative work management platform to facilitate communication, task tracking, and coordination with its partner ecosystem, providing a unified system for managing partner activities.

5. Balancing Competency-Based and Outcome-Based Models: Asana opted for a competency-based partner program structure, citing the complexity of implementing an outcome-based model that would require sophisticated backend systems and processes.

Key Quotes -

"I was excited to talk with you because, traditionally, a partnership leader’s worst nightmare is working with a CRO. Few people have experienced both roles firsthand, but you’ve done exactly that." - Asher Mathew

"What's top of mind for me is that, as you know, AI is everywhere. But what I often hear from our customers is that their tech stack has become very complex." - Eron Sunando

On this episode of the Unlearn podcast, hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn welcome Rich Gardner, a partnership maven with a knack for turning industry insights into actionable strategies. Fresh from events like Catalyst and Dreamforce, Rich shares his take on peer-to-peer learning and aligning partnerships with the big picture.

Drawing from his time at Klaviyo, Rich dives into the nitty-gritty of being a true partnership operator. Join us for a candid conversation about where partnerships are headed and how to keep everyone – from your team to your partners – rowing in the same direction. It's a down-to-earth look at the future of business collaboration, sprinkled with Rich's real-world wisdom.

Chapters -

00:00 - Introduction

03:14 - Reflections on Catalyst and Peer-to-Peer Learning

09:47 - CEO Involvement and Partnership Strategy

14:02 - Challenges in Measuring Partnership Impact

20:23 - Operator Mindset

29:01 - The Future of Partnerships and Marketplaces

39:38 - Challenges in Collaboration with Product Teams

47:41 - The Evolution of Partnerships and Future Opportunities

50:55 - Closing Remarks

Key Takeaways -

• Partnerships leaders need to better communicate the value of partnerships to CEOs by understanding the CEO's priorities and speaking their language in terms of business metrics and growth.

• Measuring and attributing partnership impact is a complex challenge that requires rigor and instrumentation, which partnership leaders need to focus on.

• Product teams can be resistant to co-building or allowing third-party integrations, so partnership leaders need to frame partnerships as a way to help product teams achieve their goals faster.

• Partnership leaders need to adopt an operator mindset, understanding the entire business and being able to translate partnerships' value across different functions.

• The rise of platforms, marketplaces, and the democratization of integration/development due to AI presents both challenges and opportunities for partnership leaders to navigate.

Key Quotes -

“Now is the perfect time to claim a seat at the table, given the shifts in the market. The key for leaders is to focus on being effective operators” - Asher Mathew

"To succeed as a partnerships leader, regardless of your title, you must understand your product, customer success, sales, and what matters to finance. You need to grasp it all—essentially acting as a mini-CEO." - Rich Gardner

"It's complex to map out these dynamics. Crossbeam has attempted to visualize the cloud, but when you consider hyperscalers and their marketplaces, they're now incorporating business software, not just IT and dev tools. This creates layers of ecosystems within ecosystems. Even hyperscalers are part of others' ecosystems, so no one is just a platform anymore—everyone is both a participant and a platform." - Kelly Sarabyn

On this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, hosts Asher Mathew & Kelly Sarabyn engage in a compelling discussion on the impacts of social media. They are joined by author Tobias Rose-Stockwell, known for his book "Outrage Machine,"

Tobias, a seasoned researcher in technology's societal impacts, shares insights gathered over a decade of study. His expertise sheds light on how platforms like Slack can disrupt workplace dynamics and productivity.

The episode delves into the complexities of social media's influence, exploring themes of workplace disruption, productivity challenges, and strategies for enhancing online trust and fact-checking. Listeners gain valuable insights into navigating the evolving landscape of social media and its broader implications.

Chapters -

00:00 - Social media's impact on workplace productivity and interpersonal relationships.

7:56 - How digital communication changes social dynamics in the workplace.

12:38 - How social media impacts moral emotions and mental health.

16:32 - Social media companies' ethical issues and how they prioritize engagement over morality.

21:03 - LinkedIn's algorithm and its impact on content visibility and toxicity.

27:51 - LinkedIn algorithm and content optimization.

31:50 - Creating and managing online communities, with a focus on engagement and outcomes.

35:30 - Content moderation challenges in social media platforms.

39:19 - Improving social media fact-checking through community-driven, AI-augmented platforms.

43:35 - Building trust in social media with a focus on verification engines and trust and safety teams.

Key Takeaways -

• Social media platforms like Slack can negatively impact workplace productivity and creativity due to constant distractions and performance-based interactions

• Writing text removes non-verbal cues and context, making online communication more open to misinterpretation compared to in-person interactions

• Prioritizing engagement alone can incentivize the spread of misinformation over truthful information on social media

• Community-driven fact-checking and citations from reputable sources can help combat viral misinformation spread on social media platforms

• The concept of building a "market for trust" by prioritizing validated information over viral hits in the long run could create more value for social media platforms

Key Quotes -

"I feel like LinkedIn is really changing. When I first started using it, it was a straightforward network where people had small circles. Now it seems like there are ccircles within circles. Different content is shown to different people, even in different countries. There was this creative explosion initially, but now every week I hear people frustrated because their reach and impressions are down. It feels like we've fallen into the situation you're describing." - Asher Mathew

"There's some really interesting research and history regarding LinkedIn's efforts to make its feed less toxic. Back in the day, most social media platforms didn't even have a news feed. When LinkedIn started, it was more about who you were connected to rather than having a feed. They implemented a feed early on, but then they actually turned it off due to spikes in garbage content, spam, and other issues typical of user-generated content networks. After a hiatus, they restarted the feed, around 2017 if I remember correctly, in a read-only format. They also selected specific influencers who could post to the feed, aiming for global reach with a small number of chosen influencers in the early days." - Tobias Rose-Stockwell

"I do think Wikipedia is a great example. People perceive it as very neutral, right? I've never heard anyone say, 'Wikipedia has a liberal bias' or something like that. It just comes across as neutral. I think it's hopeful that this neutrality can be embedded into social networks." - Kelly Sarabyn

On this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, hosts Asher and Kelly connect with Louise McEvoy, Vice President of US Channel Sales at Trend Micro. Louise shares her insights on building channel programs while balancing a demanding career with her passion for mountain climbing. The discussion covers topics such as obtaining executive buy-in for new models, modernizing competencies for channel leaders, and prioritizing tasks as a busy executive. The speakers explore adapting to changing market conditions, rethinking success metrics, and focusing on revenue growth, program development, and team support amid industry transformations. This conversation provides valuable perspectives on the challenges and opportunities facing partnership executives in today's digital landscape.

Chapters -

00:00 - Balancing demanding career and non-career pursuits with a mountaineer.

06:20 - Transforming a channel through relationships and ecosystems.

10:06 - Unlearning traditional channel models and adopting new strategies for value creation.

15:55 - Transforming business models in the tech industry.

20:34 - Partner strategy, executive buy-in, and market shifts.

26:26 - Leveraging marketplaces for ISVs to resell products without embedding another ISV's product.

31:21 - Marketplaces, bundling, and corporate sponsorship.

38:06 - Modern partnership leadership competencies and evolution of roles.

46:40 - Prioritizing tasks and staying informed in a busy work environment.

Key Takeaways -

• In transforming business models, obtaining executive buy-in is crucial to mitigate disruptions across departments that may not align with the new direction.

• The evolution of partnership leadership roles now includes a broader spectrum of competencies, including influence, relationship building, and staying abreast of emerging market trends and tools.

• Effective strategies were discussed for achieving work-life balance by leveraging employer support, such as flexible time off and a culture of trust in employees.

• In modernizing channel models, speakers highlighted the effectiveness of combining traditional, transformational, and blue ocean strategies to adapt to evolving market conditions.

• Insightful techniques were shared for executives to prioritize tasks, focusing on areas such as revenue growth, program development, and team support.

Key Quotes-

“It's crucial to prioritize collaboration with finance teams and ensure they're well-informed. Finance teams can benefit from a deeper understanding of our business operations. Taking an operational approach and working closely with them to clarify processes is essential for seamless workflow. This clarity helps prevent future support challenges and enhances overall efficiency." - Asher Mathew

"Regarding ISVs, I see the value in integrating with their ecosystems. Take Trend Micro, for instance. We offer a unified platform with various modules and services. For customers using platforms that lack certain security aspects, our integrations with ISVs provide seamless extensions rather than requiring a complete overhaul. This approach avoids the complexity of enabling multiple products and ensures efficient integration that simply works." - Louise McEvoy

On this episode of the Unlearn podcast, we discuss leadership with Rachel Skaff, Managing Director of North America Partner Sales at AWS. At AWS, she oversees the channel sales organization for North America, focused on accelerating growth through partners.

Joined by hosts Asher and Kelly, Rachel shares insights from her diverse career path and transforming AWS's partner model. The conversation explores challenges of work-life balance, especially for female executives, and offers advice for navigating careers amidst disruption. Emphasizing lifelong learning and adaptability, this episode provides valuable perspectives for partnership and sales professionals navigating organizational transformation.

Chapters -

00:00 - Partnerships and leadership with Amazon Web Services executive

05:31 - Parenting, leadership, and experience

10:52 - Work-life balance, leadership, and prioritizing people over processes

19:06 - Modern partnership leadership and sales strategies

25:12 - Leadership, decision-making, and adapting to change

32:55 - Leadership, reinvention, and presence in a rapidly changing environment

38:01 - Transforming organizations and leading sales initiatives

44:33 - Customer centricity and leadership principles for executives

51:07 - Partner roles and carrying quotas in business

Key Takeaways -

• Leaders need to continuously reinvent themselves and be open to change as industries evolve rapidly with new technologies.

• It's important to spend significant time externally with customers and partners to understand their needs and challenges.

• Balancing work and personal life, especially parenting, is very challenging but important to discuss openly.

• Carrying quotas or incentives in some form is important for partner roles to focus on generating business value.

• Surrounding oneself with diverse networks of peers and mentors is crucial for guidance in transforming organizations.

Key Quotes -

"If you wake up every day and it's not a - Hell yeah!. Go find something else!” - Rachel Skaff

In this episode of the Unlearn podcast, hosts Asher Mathew and Kelly Sarabyn sit down with Mekaela Davis, Chief Partner Officer at Trintech.

With experience at both Big 4 consulting firms and enterprise software companies, Mekaela shares her unconventional journey to becoming a CPO. She discusses the diverse skills required and the importance of executive-level accountability. Mekaela also offers insights into building a partner-first culture, optimizing ISV partnerships, and translating qualitative partnership impacts into compelling narratives. Mekaela is also recognized within the VISTA Equity portfolio as a trailblazer in the CPO role, responsible for scaling partnerships across her organization.

Chapters -

00:00 - Partnerships and alliances in scaling companies

04:40 - Career paths, including engineering, surgery, and partner operations

08:39 - Path to Chief Partnership Officer role

13:54 - Partnerships and integrations between tech companies

20:15 - Partner management challenges and solutions

26:52 - Partnerships, strategy, and becoming a Chief Partner Officer

31:00 - Partnerships, alliances, and 360-degree relationships in professional services

34:58 - Career progression and leadership role evolution

39:52 - Changes in role from SVP to CPO, including new responsibilities and expectations

44:37 - Leadership roles in partner programs, challenges faced by SVPs, and benefits of becoming a Chief Partner Officer

48:37 - Importance of CEO buy-in for partnership success

52:33 - Partner management and culture with a CEO and their team

Key Takeaways -

• Having a dedicated Chief Partner Officer (CPO) role is crucial for leading partnerships at an executive level and ensuring proper focus, allocation of resources, and accountability.

• To be effective in the role of CPO, one needs diverse experiences encompassing roles in accounting, marketing, business development, and other areas.

• It's essential to cultivate a partner-friendly culture within the organization, starting from the ground up with a strong commitment from the CEO and consistent reinforcement.

• In addition to quantitative metrics, it's important to convey qualitative narratives about partnerships to boards and stakeholders, highlighting their significance beyond just key performance indicators (KPIs).

• Optimizing partnerships between technology companies holds strategic importance in enhancing customer experiences and overall outcomes.

Key Quotes-

“Companies that get funded, say, here's a use case, and go sell it to one department, meaning one person. Then they go find other departments or other people in the same company and sell the same use case. So that's one way to build your business. The other way to build your business is you find a persona, and then you do everything for that person and make them look like a hero.” - Asher Mathew

"Building a truly partner-first culture requires constant reinforcement from the top down. As CPO, I work closely with our CEO to ensure partners are part of every communication, from company-wide emails to press interviews. It's about repetition so that partner-focus becomes second nature for our entire organization." - Mekaela Davis

"As someone who has worked at both startups and larger enterprises, I've seen it work both ways depending on the situation. At a young startup, focusing intensely on a niche persona is often the best strategy to quickly gain traction. But for a more established company, expanding into new use cases once the core product is established can also drive significant growth. It really comes down to understanding your unique market and customers at each stage of the business." - Kelly Sarabyn

On this episode of the Unlearn Podcast, hosts Kelly and Asher are joined by Bob Rosin, a seasoned professional with a diverse career spanning the B2B industry, startups, and leadership roles at companies like Sony, LinkedIn, and Stripe. Rosin shares insights into strategic partnerships, emphasizing the importance of understanding partners' goals and creating mutual value. He highlights LinkedIn's mission-driven approach and discusses the evolving Chief Business Officer role in driving holistic business development. The conversation covers various partnership types for startups and career paths in partnerships, offering key takeaways on strategic pursuit, interdepartmental collaboration, and the evolving role of partnership leaders in driving growth. Chapters: 00:00 - Partnerships and business development in various industries. 07:46 - Business development and partnerships. 11:43 - Partnerships for product development and distribution 18:57 - Partnership strategies for startups, including marketing, distribution, and enablement. 24:33 - Importance of business development and partner management in organizations. 29:00 - Partnerships, product understanding, and user experience at LinkedIn. 33:41 - LinkedIn's API program and data protection. 38:36 - Data collection, scraping, and partnerships in the tech industry. 41:59 - Career paths in partnerships and business development. 47:30 - Business development roles and reporting structures in tech companies. 52:54 - Chief Business Officer roles and responsibilities. 57:16 - Partnerships and business growth strategies for Chief Business Officers and partnership leaders. Key Takeaways: 1. Partnerships should be pursued strategically based on what is best for the business, not just for the sake of doing deals. 2. Understanding the technical and business goals of potential partners is key to developing mutually beneficial relationships. 3. Close collaboration between partnerships/business development and product/engineering teams leads to innovative solutions that create value for customers. 4. Networking and relationships are critical for startups to connect with larger organizations and make opportunities happen. 5. As partnerships evolve, leaders need to focus on growing the business holistically through multiple levers like buy/build/partner, not just distribution. Key Quotes: "Your goal, whether your partnerships, or your chief business officer is to develop the business." - Bob Rosin "Partnerships are a means to an end of building the business. It's not about doing partnerships, right. Partnerships is a means to an end. And, but the goal is to how do you create new businesses? Have you built a business? How do you have impact on your end users, that makes it a better product, right, that delivers better experiences for your customers." - Bob Rosin "The closer that you can be to product and to the technology and to the actual user experience, then the better results you're going to have because ultimately the kind of the, the ground truth, like where it happens is the end user, whether it's a business user or a consumer and the experience that they're having." - Bob Rosin