Professor Malissa Clark is one of the world’s leading scholars on workaholism, burnout, and the science of healthy work. She is Professor and Head of Psychology Department at the University of Georgia, where she also leads the Healthy Work Lab. Her research has redefined how we think about overwork as a multidimensional phenomenon with deep consequences for individuals, families, and organizations.

Prof. Clark is the author of Never Not Working, a book that blends rigorous research with personal insight to challenge the myths of productivity and the culture of “always on.”

In this episode, Malissa and Subbu unpack why workaholism is far more complex than simply clocking long hours, how burnout is preventable, and what both individuals and organizations can do to build healthier ways of working. They also explore the hidden costs of overwork on families, the myths that refuse to die, and the cultural signals that silently enforce “ideal worker” norms.

We cover:

• Malissa’s winding career path—from sales and consulting to academia
• Why she founded the Healthy Work Lab and what “healthy work” really means
• The four dimensions of workaholism: motivational, cognitive, emotional, and behavioral
• Why long hours don’t predict productivity—and how overwork can harm teams
• The health consequences of chronic overwork—from poor sleep to cardiovascular risk
• The ripple effects of workaholism on spouses, children, and workplace culture
• Burnout as an organizational problem, not just an individual one—and why it’s preventable
• Practical strategies to “kick the habit”: Eisenhower matrix, recovery breaks, and mastery experiences
• How organizational norms—like praising late-night availability—shape unhealthy cultures
• What leaders can do to reset expectations, model balance, and experiment with change
• The promise and challenges of the four-day week movement
• Why vulnerability and personal storytelling matter in academic work

Daniel Pink is one of the world’s most influential thinkers on work, behavior, and human motivation. He is the author of seven New York Times bestsellers—including Drive, When, and The Power of Regret—books that have shaped how leaders, educators, and individuals approach purpose, timing, decision-making, and the emotions that drive us.

Across a career that spans law, politics, speechwriting, and two decades of groundbreaking writing, Dan has made complex research in psychology and behavioral science accessible to millions of readers worldwide. His TED talks have been viewed tens of millions of times, and his work continues to influence the way organizations and individuals think about performance, choice, and meaning.

In this episode, Dan and Subbu unpack why regret is not something to suppress but a vital emotion that helps us learn, grow, and make better choices. They also explore how to navigate today’s flood of information, the habits of good decision-making, and the human commonalities revealed by studying regrets from around the world.

We cover:

• Dan’s winding career path—from law school and politics to bestselling author
• Why he regrets not having mentors early in his career
• How he stays current with fast-moving research without drowning in information
• The puzzle at the heart of The Power of Regret—why an emotion that feels terrible is so universal
• Why “no regrets” culture is misguided, and how to confront regrets productively
• The difference between regrets of action and inaction—and why inaction regrets dominate as we age
• The four universal categories of regret: foundation, boldness, moral, and connection
• What 26,000 submissions to the World Regret Survey reveal about being human
• How to deal with regrets through self-compassion, writing, and sense-making
• The regret optimization framework, and how to apply it to the decisions that matter most
• Why kindness and pro-social behavior should become our “default setting”
• How changing the delivery of ideas matters as much as the ideas themselves in an age of AI and distraction

Alex Soojung-Kim Pang is a historian, futurist, and one of the most compelling voices rethinking the way we work, rest, and create. He is the author of Rest, Shorter, and The Distraction Addiction—books that have reshaped the global conversation on productivity and wellbeing.

Alex has worked across academia, tech, publishing, and firms like the 4 Day Week Gobal. Today, he leads programs with 4.dk - a Dutch team leading 4-day week experiments in Denmark, and 4 Day Week studio.

In this episode, Alex and Subbu explore the science and art of deliberate rest, why overwork is counterproductive, and how the four-day week is moving from radical idea to mainstream practice. The conversation draws on history, neuroscience, and real-world experiments to reveal how we can all work better by working less.

We cover:

• Alex’s unconventional “Grand Theft Auto” career path—from historian to tech futurist to rest evangelist
• The mentors and moments that shaped his thinking
• Why overwork persists—and how it erodes creativity, judgment, and empathy
• What it really takes to rest well: active recovery, multiple time scales, and deliberate planning
• The “four-hour rule” of deep work and how great minds from Darwin to Hemingway structured their days
• The link between morning routines, the default mode network, and creativity
• The concept of deep play and why serious hobbies sustain high performance
• The business case for the four-day week, and what early adopters have learned
• How AI is changing the way we discover and apply research
• What the music industry can teach us about creativity and collaboration in the age of automation

Michael Morris is the Chavkin-Chang Professor of Leadership at Columbia Business School, and one of the world’s leading scholars at the intersection of culture, cognition, and leadership. A cultural psychologist by training, his research has shaped how we understand identity, influence, and the psychology of change across global contexts. Over a career spanning decades, Prof. Morris has published over 200 academic papers and founded Columbia’s Leadership Lab and Behavioral Lab.

In this episode, Prof. Morris and Subbu unpack the deep instincts that shape our collective lives—from the psychology of sports teams to corporate leadership—and why culture is not fixed, but dynamic, contested, and constantly evolving.

To listen to the full episode, go here: bit.ly/m/cult_m

We cover:

- Prof. Morris' journey from literature and cognitive science to pioneering cultural psychology

- The origin story of the field—and why it had to reemerge after being sidelined for decades

- Why culture is not what people say, but what people signal

- What South Korea’s 2002 World Cup team taught us about identity and adaptability

- Peer, hero, and ancestor instincts—and how they shape organizational behavior

- What leaders often get wrong about culture change

- Why the legitimacy of the messenger matters more than the message

- How companies like Infosys, HCL, and GM shifted culture through surprising signals

- The future of cultural analysis in an age of AI and big data

Amy Edmondson is the Novartis Professor of Leadership and Management at Harvard Business School, and one of the world’s foremost thinkers on organizational behavior. Best known for her pioneering work on psychological safety, Amy’s research has transformed how leaders build trust, foster learning, and create high-performing teams. Her books—including The Fearless Organization and Right Kind of Wrong—have become must-reads for anyone serious about culture and innovation.

In this episode, Amy and Subbu dive deep into the science of failing well, teaming in a hybrid world, and why psychological safety isn’t about being nice but about being brave. We explore the roots of her work, lessons from early setbacks, and what it takes to build resilient, learning-focused organizations in an age of AI, burnout, and constant change.

In this episode, we cover:

• Amy’s unconventional journey—from working with Buckminster Fuller to redefining team learning
• The surprising discovery that launched psychological safety research
• Common myths about psychological safety
• How hybrid and remote work are reshaping interpersonal risk-taking
• The difference between errors and failures, and why most organizations confuse the two
• What “intelligent failure” looks like, and how to cultivate it
• Why team-based learning is the underappreciated engine of innovation
• The link between psychological safety and burnout—and what leaders can do about it
• A systems-thinking lens for navigating consistent, variable, and novel work contexts
• Amy’s next big question: Given the larger societal and technological changes around us, how do we make work work for everybody?

Ankur Mehra is a creator economist, bestselling author of Pixels to Profits, and one of LinkedIn’s Top Voices on the creator economy. With a diverse career spanning the armed forces, big tech, and media, Ankur brings a rare blend of structure, strategy, and storytelling to the world of digital creators. He has worked with platforms like Facebook and Instagram, built media partnerships with cultural icons like Rajinikanth, and today champions the rise of creator-led ecosystems.

In this episode, Ankur and I unpack how the creator economy is not just disrupting media—it’s reshaping leadership, organizations, and the future of work. We explore what it means for CEOs, CHROs, and employees to embrace their voice, create content with purpose, and build communities—not just audiences.

In this episode, we cover:

• Ankur’s journey from lieutenant in the Indian Army to creator economy evangelist
• The media moment that changed how he saw purpose at work
• Why creators are the new media, and what that means for influence and trust
• How CEOs and CHROs can lead with content and culture through employee-generated content (EGC)
• The 5C and 3R frameworks that decode the complexity of content creation
• Mental health, originality, and fighting FOMO in a content-saturated world
• A thought-provoking glimpse into the decentralized, creator-led future of the internet

Gurucharan Singh Gandhi (Guru) is the CHRO of Vodafone Idea Limited and has held leadership roles at Madura, Aditya Birla Capital, Max Life Insurance, and more. He’s the author of Kabir in Corporates and Careerathon, and a passionate marathon runner who brings a poetic clarity to life and work.

In this episode Guru and I explore how careers are best viewed as long-distance runs rather than short-term races. Guru shares his unconventional, adjacency-led career path and the life lessons that came from embracing change, nurturing endurance, and respecting the track—whether in work or while running a marathon.

In this episode, we cover:

• Guru’s zigzag yet intentional career journey across sales, L&D, and HR
• Why personal evolution is the real foundation for career growth
• The metaphor of running – from hydrating well to forgetting the last race – and how it mirrors modern careers
• Learning to recognize your own “drivers” and how not to get trapped by comparison
• How resilience, reflection, and mentorship help you navigate downturns
• What forgetting the last race teaches us about transitions and adaptability
• A provocative take on the future of work – and why the question should be “whose future of work?”

Whether you're early in your career, rethinking your path, or just looking for a fresh take on leadership and growth, this episode is a thoughtful listen packed with insights.

Dave Ulrich is ranked #1 management guru by Business Week, named one of the Top 10 Creative People in Business by Fast Company, a Top 5 Executive Coach by Forbes, and consistently featured on the Thinkers50 list of the world’s most influential business thinkers. Dave has written over 30 books, shaped the field of HR as we know it, and continues to inspire with his unwavering passion for ideas with impact.

In this episode, Subbu and Dave discuss Dave's illustrious career spanning over 4 decades, how he keeps going even today, the evolving definition of culture, how culture impacts customer value, the importance of hope, and a whole lot more.

Key topics discussed:

• How Dave got interested in the field of organizational behavior and theory
• Dave's OCD - Organization Compulsive Behavior
• What keeps Dave going even today
• Why does culture matter?
• How the definition of culture has evolved over the years
• A bold new definition of culture
• Why culture transformation efforts may fail
• Rituals turn personal habits into realized values and guiding principles
• When rituals can become powerful in an organizational context
• A lesson from Dave's mentor: the late CK Prahlad
• Employee experience v/s team performance
• The need to look seriously at mental health in a work setting
• The 5 waves of employee experience
• HR is on the cusp of transformation, thanks to AI
• Word-ball game!
• The future of work and the emphasis on culture
• How stay relevant in the world of AI
• Honoring Dave's legacy