What if the way we’ve been thinking about leadership is fundamentally wrong?

This episode is the meetup Chris hosted with Dr. Kathleen Allen, author of Leading from the Roots, and it explores a completely different way of thinking about leadership—one grounded not in control, hierarchy, or efficiency… but in nature.

Kathleen’s work focuses on regenerative leadership—designing organizations that function more like ecosystems than machines. And as you’ll hear, the implications are massive.

Key topics:

• Why treating organizations like machines creates burnout, silos, and dysfunction
• The shift from extractive systems to regenerative ones—and why it matters
• How a simple change in perspective (seeing people as living systems) transforms culture instantly
• Why most org charts are backwards—and what a “tree-based” org structure reveals
• The three stages of ecosystem development—and how they map directly to organizations
• Why diversity and relationships—not control—create resilience
• What distributed leadership actually looks like in practice (and why it works)
• How organizations unintentionally create fragility through efficiency and monoculture thinking

One of the biggest takeaways:
If your system is producing poor outcomes, the answer isn’t to push people harder—it’s to redesign the system.

This conversation will challenge how you think about leadership, culture, and even success itself.

Connect with Dr. Kathleen Allen:
Website: KathleenAllen.net
Email: keallen1@charter.net

About Parks and Restoration:
Parks and Restoration is the podcast for park and conservation professionals who want to lead better—by building stronger teams, healthier organizations, and more impactful work. Through real-world stories and practical insights, we explore how to create environments where both people and ecosystems can thrive.

What makes people want to stay on your team for the long haul?

In this episode, Chris is joined by Des Moines County Conservation’s Environmental Education Manager, Marcus Nack, for a conversation about workplace culture, leadership, and the kind of organizational ecosystem that makes people want to stay, grow, and do their best work. The discussion starts with a real example: an intern who came to the team looking for clarity and left saying, “I want to do this forever.” From there, Chris and Marcus unpack what creates that kind of environment—and why great culture is never an accident.

Marcus shares his own path into conservation and environmental education, from growing up in suburban Illinois and hunting with his dad in Wisconsin, to college, grad school, camp leadership, and eventually landing in southeast Iowa during the chaos of 2020. Along the way, he reflects on the experiences that shaped his leadership style and why fun, play, reflection, and emotional awareness matter more than most managers realize.

The conversation also explores the overlap between leadership and ecology—a theme longtime listeners will recognize. Chris and Marcus talk about how creating a thriving workplace is a lot like creating habitat: when people feel supported, energized, and safe to grow, better outcomes follow. They also dig into Marcus’s approach to leading the education team, including how he uses reflection, after-action reviews, and curiosity instead of blame to help people improve.

They also touch on Marcus’s new podcast, Paid Time Outdoors (find it on YouTube and Facebook), which explores how people choose to spend the time they work so hard to earn. It’s a fun side conversation, but one that ties right back into the episode’s bigger point: people thrive when they stay connected to what gives them energy.

A few takeaways from this episode:
A great workplace is built on trust, fun, and genuine human connection—not just productivity.
Reflection matters. Teams improve faster when they regularly ask what worked, what didn’t, and what they can do better next time.
Play is not a distraction from growth. It’s often how growth happens.

About Parks and Restoration:
Parks and Restoration is the podcast for parks and conservation professionals who want to be better leaders for their teams, agencies, and communities. Through conversations on leadership, culture, personal growth, and the work of conservation, the show helps listeners build healthier organizations and more meaningful careers. Learn more at ParksandRestoration.com.

Dan Cohen, Director at Buchanan County Conservation and Matt Cosgrove, Director at Webster County Conservation, have been the legislative committee leaders in some capacity for the County Conservation Directors Association for more than a decade. In this episode, we discuss the legislative process and how we as park and conservation professionals can better influence legislation at the state level.

Who is this Outdoor Executive Dad? And what is this podcast about? This short episode answers those questions.

What’s the ROI of a prairie? A bat you’ll never see? A fence line removed to stitch habitat back together?

In this episode, Chris and Jeremy dig into a pressure most parks and conservation leaders feel right now: the growing expectation to put a dollar value on everything—habitat work, land protection, restoration, even species existence. There’s usefulness in ecosystem services and economic arguments… but there are also real limitations (and risks) when money becomes the only language we speak.

Discussion points:

• Why “ecosystem services” keeps showing up in conservation conversations—and hiring interviews
• The core tension: Does nature need to serve humans to be worth protecting?
• A real-world example: wind energy vs. endangered bats—and how messy “value” gets in practice
• The bald eagle recovery story (and the Rachel Carson backlash) as a reminder that this debate isn’t new
• What we lose when a species disappears: the hidden ecological relationships we don’t even understand yet (passenger pigeon + oak savannas)
• A better approach than arguing abstract philosophy: local knowledge + relentless storytelling
• Why good stewardship starts with intimate knowledge of place—and using your community’s “amateur experts” (birders, herpers, photographers, banders)
• The Hitchcock/Loess Hills example: removing fence lines to reconnect prairies isn’t just a “project”—it’s landscape-scale restoration people can see
• Bringing it full circle: you may still need to write grants and justify budgets, but the deeper case is about connection, continuity, and responsibility

Join the Next Level Leadership Community at ParksandRestoration.com for invites to upcoming live virtual meetups including:

• Dr. Kathleen Allen, author of Leading from the Roots
• Dr. Nick Askew, UK-based host of the Conservation Careers podcast that explores wildlife conservation internationally.

About Parks and Restoration

Parks and Restoration is the podcast for parks and conservation professionals who want to lead better—building strong teams, healthier cultures, and thriving public lands. Hosted by Chris Lee (Des Moines County Conservation) and Jeremy Yost (Pottawattamie County Conservation).

Are you still leading with the habits that got you promoted—or the ones that will actually move your team forward?

This week Chris and Jeremy unpack “What got you here won’t get you there” through an ecological lens. Just like trees drop their leaves to grow stronger roots, next-level leaders let go of mindsets that once worked but now hold their teams back. They share 10 practical mindset shifts to help you move from output to impact, from control to clarity, and from extraction to regeneration. They cover a lot, so grab the free PDF summary here.

Key takeaways

• Hustle → Balance: Model boundaries and build sustainable energy, don’t extract it.

• Me → Team: Your success scales when theirs does.

• Competition → Cooperation: Mature systems (and great orgs) run on partnership and win-win.

• Work → Culture: When the culture is healthy, results follow without you being the bottleneck.

• Tradition → Flexibility: Policies guide; leaders adapt (like shifting burn seasons for better outcomes).

• Control → Clarity & Trust: State leader’s intent—what “done” looks like—then empower execution.

• Correcting → Coaching: Develop people with questions, reps, and feedback, not just directives.

• Answers → Better Questions: Context matters; ask “Why do you ask?” before solving.

• Perfection → Progress: Ecosystems—and organizations—are never “done.” Ship, learn, iterate.

• Habit → Intentionality: Step back, scan for drift, and prune what no longer serves.

If you’re moving from individual contributor to leader (or leveling up as a leader), these shifts are the difference between a tired team and a thriving one. Listen in to trade short-term output for long-term impact—and walk away with tools you can use immediately.

About Parks & Restoration

Parks & Restoration is the show for parks and natural resource professionals who want to be better leaders for their organizations, communities, and the lands and waters they steward. Every other Tuesday, Chris Lee and Jeremy Yost share practical strategies—grounded in ecology and culture-building—to help you become the leader your team needs.

Join the Next Level Leadership community at parksandrestoration.com for bi-weekly insights, free tools like the Team Energy Audit, and invites to exclusive meetups.

Subscribe, leave a review, and follow along on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube by searching “Parks and Restoration Podcast.”

Sometimes, productivity doesn’t come from adding more—it comes from taking things away. In this episode, Chris and Jeremy explore the law of subtraction through lessons from oak trees, prairies, and leadership. A fascinating Tennessee study showed that fertilizing oak trees had no effect on acorn production, but thinning the stand by 50% boosted production by 65%. The takeaway? Productivity often increases when we remove competition and clutter.

From managing cedars in prairies to reducing meetings and programs in the workplace, the guys connect ecological energy management to the way we lead our teams. They share practical ways to apply subtraction—cutting busywork, saying no to non-mission-critical projects, and empowering others to do the same—so you and your team can focus on what truly matters.

• Do less to accomplish more.A 50% reduction in oak density produced a 65% increase in acorns. The same principle applies to our work and leadership.

• Manage energy by what you remove.Just as ecologists remove cedars to let sunlight reach native prairie plants, leaders can remove bureaucracy, busywork, and distractions to free up their people’s energy.

• Clarity through subtraction.Jim Collins’s Stop Doing List and Greg McKeown’s Essentialism both remind us that great organizations get clear on what not to do, freeing focus for the work that truly drives their mission.

• Nature and leadership run on the same rules.Whether thinning forests or cutting unproductive projects, subtraction creates the conditions for new growth and stronger ecosystems—natural or organizational.

“We always think productivity comes from adding more initiatives, more committees, more goals. But often, the real productivity gains come when we thin the stand.” — Chris Lee

“In the prairie, the plants you want are already there. You just have to remove what’s stifling them. The same goes for people.” — Jeremy Yost

“When leaders focus on subtraction, they free people up to do the work they were hired and inspired to do.” — Chris Lee

How you can apply these lessons:

• Get clear on the "WHY" Work with your team to determine what's truly important.

• Do a “timber cruise” of your priorities.Identify projects, meetings, and reports that drain energy without creating value or contribute to mission.

• Create a Stop-Doing List.For every new “to-do,” remove something that doesn’t advance your mission.

• Audit meetings and processes.Eliminate or consolidate recurring meetings with no clear outcomes.

• Empower people to say no.Build a culture where questioning nonessential work is encouraged and rewarded, not punished.

• Experiment.Try subtracting something for a quarter. You can always add it back—but you’ll likely discover you don’t need to.

Resources:

• Brooke et al. (2019): Effects of fertilization and thinning on acorn production in upland oak stands.

• Leidy Klotz – Subtract: The Untapped Science of Less

• Jim Collins – Good to Great

• Greg McKeown – Essentialism

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About Parks and Restoration

Better leaders. Better parks.

Parks and Restoration is THE show for current and rising leaders in the parks, conservation, and natural resource professions. Every two weeks, you get new episodes that explore key leadership concepts and how they apply to you and your team.

Great parks and healthy lands and waters are the products of strong leadership. We aim to help you become that leader.

Join the movement (and the email list) at ⁠www.ParksandRestoration.com⁠