Dr. Katrina Michelle is a holistic psychotherapist and founder of The Curious Spirit who specializes in spiritual emergence and psychedelic integration.

Katrina's dissertation on the resistance to spiritual emergence was pivotal in both catalyzing and supporting the integration of her own spiritual emergence. She is the former executive director of ACISTE which stands for the AMERICAN CENTER FOR THE INTEGRATION OF SPIRITUALLY TRANSFORMATIVE EXPERIENCES and is also a former director of the MAPS Zendo Project – MAPS - Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies – you’ve probably heard of it.

She is currently collaborating with a team of researchers to explore adverse psychedelic experiences and is working on producing a film, When Lighting Strikes, which is intended to illustrate the often “unsexy” side of awakening. Katrina and I have known each other for quite a while online and I thought she’d be a great person to catch up with.

Here’s what we covered in our podcast:

0:00 Introduction

1:30 Katrina’s Spiritual Emergence

4:50 The difference between a Spiritual Emergence and a Spiritual Emergency

10:00 How Katrina chose to do a Ph.D. on Spiritual emergence(y)

22:50 Her research on how we resist spiritual emergence.

25:00 The need for a cultural shift in our society in regard to these experiences.

28:30 Katrina’s work at ACISTE (AMERICAN CENTER FOR THE INTEGRATION OF SPIRITUALLY TRANSFORMATIVE EXPERIENCES)

30:30 Why you must get a diagnosis when you visit a psychiatrist.

35:00 How the psychedelic renaissance leads to greater awareness of spiritual emergence.

35:45 Katrina’s involvement in the MAPS Zendo project

39:50 Supporting a spiritual emergence versus supporting a psychedelic experience.

41:30 Katrina’s film project with Kate West.

43:00 Her research into challenging psychedelic experiences.

44:00 Sean psychoanalyzes Katrina’s coughing!

46:30 The need for normalizing spiritual experiences.

51:00 The difference between a difficult psychedelic experience and “psychosis”.

53:40 How Katrina finds research participants.

54:00 Alex Grey’s Chapel of the Sacred Mirrors.

55:50 Why Sean doesn’t use psychedelics.

56:30 Why psychedelics aren’t right for everyone.

59:40 Michael Pollan’s book and Netflix series, How to Change your Mind.

1:01:20 The safety of psychedelics versus other spiritual practices.

1:04:00 The need for a safe therapeutic container.

1:06:00 Our mutual connection with author, Jules Evans.

1:09:30 The Challenging Psychedelic Experience Survey and training program.

1:12:00 Dealing with licensing and the risk of being sued.