“I said, ‘Well, uh, my team and I would love to see the video,’ and the woman at Lost Highway said, ‘All right, let me pop a VHS in FedEx, it’ll be there tomorrow morning.’ So, we watched the Johnny Cash Hurt music video and once we’d wiped a tear out of our eyes, I got on the phone. I said, ‘Retta, put us in, coach. We want to play.’ And the rest is history. It was and remains still the most iconic music video of an artist doing a cover to date.” – Andy Gesner

This episode’s guest is the owner and president of HIP, one of the most trusted names in music marketing. He’s been releasing records since 1979, giving him firsthand insight into the complexities of the music industry, and he’s channeled his expertise and passion for music into uplifting fellow artists over the past twenty-four years. He and his team have promoted over 4,800 music videos, championing some of the most renowned artists and best indie talent from all corners of the globe.

His name is Andy Gesner, and if you’re a musician, this is a conversation you don’t want to miss. I know how hard it can be these days to make a living from your art, and it can be even harder if you don’t pay attention to marketing. If you’re creative, you have to wear a lot of hats, and if you’re looking for tips, Andy has some great ones to share in this two-part discussion.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - From Sound to Promotion

Our conversation starts off with Andy’s very first memory of sound, which just happens to be the Beatles’ historic performance on The Ed Sullivan Show. “Well, my sister starts screaming like a banshee and she starts twirling around like a whirling dervish,” he recalls. “And I look over at my brother, and his jaw hits the floor. And I look at this little black and white TV and there are these four guys with what at the time was considerably long hair.” He tells us about how his career shifted from performance to promotion, and what his work on Johnny Cash’s classic “Hurt” video taught him about taking creative risks. “It was like, ‘We can’t play a Johnny Cash video on MTV, no way,’" he remembers producers saying at the time. “People thought Johnny’s version of Hurt was a bit too out there. But you and I both know, as a marketing person, you present, and the public decides.”

(0:19:46) - The Importance of Music Videos

Our discussion turns to how the digital era has reshaped music promotion and how the music videos of the ‘80s paved the way for today’s influencer culture. “Now more than ever,” he explains, “artists, independent creatives, are public figures, and you can’t just sit on the couch and say, ‘Hey, I’m not going to do any of that public figure stuff, I just want the world to love me for my music.’ Those days are over.” We talk about the bands that, starting around the turn of the 21st century, have had to rely on video and online marketing instead of radio airplay, and he shares a memorable example. “I remember in 2007,” Andy says, “sending...

“But if you think about it, like if all 360,000 of these, like, law firms, not lawyers, law firms had their own brand out there, who’s gonna rise to the top? The ones who are producing content that provides value, and then the ones who are producing content that has some good production value, and are the ones who are producing content that has some good entertainment value. ‘Cause I think that’s the third leg. Because right now, just producing content is enough, but there’s going to come a point where people have to be entertaining as well, where it’s not going to be consumed.” – Dennis Meador

This episode is the second half of my conversation with founder and CEO of The Legal Podcasting Network Dennis Meador, as we discuss Dennis’s start in podcasting, his tips for putting together a helpful and accessible video for clients, and how AI is blurring the video/audio divide.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - Podcast Marketing and Communication Strategy

The second half of our conversation starts as Dennis shares his approach to winning older clients over to social-media marketing, and the challenge our online-first world can pose. “They’ll say, ‘Yeah, if I can get them in front of me, I’ll convert them 80% of the time,’" he recounts. “The problem is that 80% of the time, they check out your website and never do anything further.” He talks about short-form content and informational videos, and how they can help brands get a foot in the door when it comes to making an impression on clients. “When people search these very specific questions, now,” he explains, “all of a sudden, this attorney, especially with video and YouTube being owned by Google, their videos start to pop up, their podcast starts to pop up, their FAQ page starts to pop up.”

(0:14:19) - Future of Podcasting and Branding

Dennis and I talk about how remote networking and online spaces have changed the way we make a first impression, and his approach to keeping brands engaged with their clients. “We send a lot of videos in my company,” he explains, “I’ll have somebody say to me, like, ‘Oh, this client’s ghosted us, blah, blah, blah, blah. They’re not returning calls.’ I’m like, did you send [a video]? They probably forgot you’re a real person.” He shares his thoughts about Gen Z, and now Gen Alpha, and how their lifelong experience with social media will impact the future of branding. “Fifteen years ago or ten years ago,” he recalls, “the number one thing kids wanted to be when they grew up was doctors and lawyers. Do you know what the number one thing is now for kids junior-high and below? Influencers.”

(0:17:34) - AI and Creativity in Marketing

Our conversation concludes with a firsthand account of how AI is helping Dennis reinvent and expand his approach to podcast development. “I’m hoping that when we produce this [next] podcast,” he says, “we actually produce it as a cartoon, that when we produce this podcast, we actually produce it as a cartoon, and...

“I don’t care what I have to do, they are not going to ignore me. So I would get up, I would walk around the room, I would stand on a chair in the middle of the room, I would shout, I would run, I would scream, I would kick things. If I was mad at the Devil, I would kick something. And if I was happy for Jesus, I would run around, woo hoo hoo! And I mean, people would just come out and be like, ‘Wow, I’ve never really seen anybody speak like you.’ And I’m just like, listen, if you’re not listening, I’m not speaking. So, I think Paul said something like, I’ll be a fool for Christ. His context was all of the troubles and trials and tribulations he’d gone through in life. But the context of the statement was, in order to reach people with this message, I’ll do whatever I have to do.” – Dennis Meador

My guest on this episode is the founder and CEO of The Legal Podcast Network, a turnkey podcasting, marketing, and content solution for the legal industry. With nearly thirty years in marketing, over twenty of those focused on white-collar industries, especially the legal sector, he brings extensive expertise in branding, podcasting, and beyond. His name is Dennis Meador, and in this two-part conversation, he’ll be sharing his take on branded podcasts and how they improve client engagement, and where he thinks podcasting for specific industries will head in the future.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - Early Memories of Sound and Communication

We start things off with Dennis’s early memories of sound, including a gospel music tape he heard when he was just five years old. “It got to the point,” he recalls, “where, within a short amount of time, I had every song memorized off of that tape, both sides, every song front to back.” He shares his experiences with public speaking and what he’s learned about engagement and connecting with an audience. “I’ve spoken to two, three thousand a few times, something like that,” he explains, “and you just feel like you’re almost shouting into an abyss. Versus like that 300 to 500, you can almost feel the energy and see whether or not people are plugged in all across the whole room.”

(0:12:54) - Success in Sales and Podcasting

Dennis tells us about how he got into advertising and his insights into the industry. “You’re helping these businesses,” he tells us. “If you’re not ripping them off and you’re really producing the product, and it’s a good thing, then you’re helping these companies.” We talk about how social media has transformed the marketing landscape and the difference between having a large audience and an engaged audience. “If you have 50,000 downloads or views of a show,” he notes, “but they’re all over the world and no one calls you, it’s not nearly as valuable as having fifty people locally, ten of them calling you, and six hiring you. Fifty could be infinitely more valuable than fifty thousand.”

(0:23:34) - Marketing Strategies Through Video...

“That brings up a whole other point, which is the power of a voice’s quality to bring a brand to life. A lot of clients are, like, just hire voiceover and just have them say the copy. And it’s just, like, there’s a place for Gilbert Gottfried and there’s a place for, you know, John Lithgow. And I’m not saying we would use either of those, but you know, if I’m doing a commercial on a cancer care center, I would never have Gilbert Gottfried come on and say, I’m not, that’s not, you know, that’s like, that’s... It would be memorable, but it would be completely the opposite of what the brand should be. It doesn’t sound earnest. And that’s how the voice you choose for a commercial is critical.” – Reid Holmes

This episode is the second half of my conversation with keynote speaker, author, and mature brand revitalizer Reid Holmes as we talk about the role sound plays in his ad projects, the pros and cons of AI use in audio branding, and the key to building client trust with appreciated branding.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help – and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - The Power of Audio Branding

We begin the second half of our discussion with Reid’s thoughts on sonic logos, and we look at how effective they’ve been for such companies as Apple and Netflix. “Those things can be incredibly impactful because they say I’m entering a new world here,” he says. “I am now in the care of this other thing, I’ve gone through a doorway, I’ve come into this new world, and that is one of the biggest things audio cues can do.” We talk about synthetic voices, and Reid recalls a podcast’s questionable use of a sonic persona. “You gotta be really careful,” he explains. “These sonic personas people are trying to chase to make another version of themselves, it’s very slippery. It can do so much damage.”

(0:08:19) - The Impact of AI on Branding

Reid shares his own experience with AI assistance, and how its use in editing his book revealed both its strength and limitations. “Not doing it yourself is a disservice, I think,” he explains, “because then you don’t know the intricacies of how things bounce off each other, and how ideas bounce off each other.” We discuss the challenges of networking and collaborating in an increasingly digital world, and how the shift to an online economy has affected many companies’ marketing strategies. “A lot of brands are saying ‘we don’t need any brand advertising, we just need to chase people all over the Internet and get our transactions,” he says. “My personal point of view is that’s short-sighted.”

(0:15:05) - The Future of Branding and Advertising

As our conversation comes to a close, Reid talks more about appreciated branding and its potential for building long-term brand loyalty. “On the customer lifetime value side of that equation,” he explains, “it’s cheaper to sell to someone who already knows you and believes in you and has bought from you than to convince yet another new person.” We talk about his current projects,...

“And one year, Ariel [Detergent] was, like, you know that 95 % of the people in India still think laundry is a woman’s job. And Ariel was just, like, gosh, that doesn’t seem like it’s, this was 2017 or ‘18 at the time, [and] they’re like, that doesn’t seem right. Like, it’s, haven’t we all moved past that? So they created a campaign they called ‘Share the Load.’ And what they did is they went out there and they advocated a hashtag, #sharetheload with, for everybody in the family to help with the laundry. It shouldn’t just be mom’s job anymore. And of course, this kind of air cover for someone who is burdened with this task would just elicit a huge thank you because you’re just helping to make their lives better, and you haven’t done a darn thing. It’s not about the product. It’s positioning. Yeah, it’s, like, ‘here’s what we know you care about, and so we’re going to prove that we care about you because we care about that.’ Sales went up 76%.” – Reid Holmes

This episode’s guest has spent over thirty years leading the creative departments of some of the best ad agencies in America. His idea for H&R Block, “You Got People,” garnered four million new clients, and his work changed the trajectory of brands like Burger King, The Mayo Clinic, KeyBank, and many others. He also has multiple public-speaking awards as he helps audiences gain a deeper understanding of how clarity creates impact. He’s won almost every award in advertising and has been featured in The New York Times, Adweek, Advertising Age, Forbes, and Communication Arts.

But as his kids started graduating, he realized he wanted to leave a legacy. He found an approach that inspires businesses, marketing teams, and those they wish to attract. His #1 best-selling book, Appreciated Branding: Transform Your Brand from Ignored to Irreplaceable, has become a go-to mature-brand playbook. His name is Reid Holmes, and he’ll be sharing his perspective on advertising today, how brands can use sound to stand out and be more memorable, and where he thinks things will go from here. If you’re looking to boost your brand, you won’t want to miss this one!

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help – and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - The Power of Audio in Advertising

Our conversation begins with a look back at the early memories that sparked Reid’s love of sound, which include his father’s copy of the famous War of the Worlds broadcast. “You picture these big, huge Martian creatures that are described,” he says, “and they’re coming down through New Jersey and the whole country was freaking out. And it was Orson Welles, who has the pipes for audio.” He tells us more about his family’s history in advertising and about how it led to his own career. “I was like, well, my mom was in advertising and my uncle’s doing really well in it,” Reid explains. “I should give it a shot because it seems like it runs in the family, and maybe I’d be pretty good at it.”

(0:13:02) - The Evolution of Radio...

“So, when you’re speaking to somebody, hear them before, hear them during, [and] hear them after. And earn the right to have the conversation. It’s like you’re just always hearing them and you’re always double-checking yourself, and that’s when we were just talking about a few minutes ago. If you’re speaking to somebody and you’ve uncovered something, and it’s like, hey, is this still real? Is this still relevant? Do I understand this and or you correctly? Do I have it right? [Then] they feel heard, and then it becomes that collective conversation. Like you were saying, I just want to know what’s going on, and we’re always talking to somebody.” – John Duffin

This episode is the second half of my conversation with executive coach, podcast host, and DuffinMedia voice talent John Duffin as we discuss how leaders can better communicate with their teams, the challenge of balancing legal concerns and genuine empathy in the business world, and the uses John’s found for AI tools like Claude and ChatGPT when it comes to content.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available and what the newest audio chats will be about. If you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help – and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts.

(0:00:00) - Effective Communication for Leaders

As our conversation continues, we talk more about building trust and sincere relationships with clients and listeners. “If you did nothing more,” John advises, “then talk to people, not at people. Put your bullet points away, put your PowerPoint slides down for a moment, and look at people.” He talks about delivering bad news in an empathetic way and overcoming the common habit of assuming the worst.

“I’m terrible at this,” he notes. “As a human, I don’t mean boss, leader, comedian, as a human, I make up all kinds of scenarios. Very few of them are good unless I’m reading my own affirmations.”

(0:06:45) - Effective Communication in Difficult Conversations

John addresses the obstacles that business concerns can pose to expressing empathy, and how he works with clients to balance legal liabilities and genuine communication. “They are taught from a company perspective, don’t say too much,” he explains. “Don’t say too much. Here’s your talking points. You know, look sad when you say this and don’t say what. If they ask a question, don’t answer it.” He offers an example of a straightforward, if disappointing, conversation early in his career that struck just the right note. “She was like, ‘Hey John, you were great. I wasn’t able to select you for this position, I am going to be going with [someone else]. I think that’s all she said, and it was plenty.”

(0:17:13) - The Art of Authentic Communication

Our discussion comes to a close as he tells us what he’s working on now, including a new online course he’s developed and a wide variety of upcoming speaking roles. “My next speaking engagement, that’ll be several hundred people, and I’ve spoken in front of one, you know,” he says. “Are there technical nuances between the two? Yes, but the heart of it remains the same.” He adds his thoughts on the most important aspect of communication: “I’ve got a whole series of techniques that I’ve created and that I keep working on. And, folks, the easiest way to say it is...

This week’s guest is the creator and host of the Your Message Received podcast, a groundbreaking platform with more than 125 episodes where he empowers executives, businesses, and individuals through impactful storytelling and strategic communication training. With over twenty-five years of experience in media, spanning broadcast, radio, digital, and streaming, his career has been driven by a passion for culture, content, and inclusion. As a live event announcer, marathoner, and dedicated Philadelphia sports fan, he infuses energy into every endeavor. Family is central to his life, inspired by his 95-year-old mother who began acting at age 74. At DuffinMedia, he champions authenticity, helping clients unlock their communication potential for life-changing results.

His name is John Duffin, and our conversation about having a good conversation turned out to be an essential education. Effective communication is so important, especially these days, so listen in for some tips and ideas to help you communicate more effectively in your own life.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available and what the newest audio chats will be about. If you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help – and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts.

(0:00:01) - Early Sound Memory and Communication Journey

As our discussion starts, John shares his early memories of how sound moved him, from Jackson Five records to his mother singing while she did housework. “I can just remember the happiness in regards to the way that she sang,” he tells us. “So, yeah, absolutely, and that was, like I said, the first that I can easily recall it made me happy.” He tells us about his sales career in radio, and how questions about his role lead him into voiceover. “’You have a really good voice, are you on the radio?’” he recalls his clients asking. “I would brush that off, for I don’t know decades, just no, no, I’m in sales…. I remember thinking, well, if they were right and if I don’t find out, well then I’ll live to regret that.”

(0:15:00) - The Authentic Art of Communication

John tells us more about his career shift into voiceover and public speaking, and how, at first, he tried to keep his experience in sales separate. “I would only speak about voiceover and voice narration and all that sort of thing,” he says. “And a few years after that I came to the realization, one, that’s dumb. Your history is really important.” We discuss the importance of authenticity and a genuine connection, and how much easier communication is when it’s backed up by both experience and honest interest in your client. “All the training and overthinking and technical expertise,” he adds, “all that stuff, and that’s why I don’t dismiss it. It’s very meaningful. The training enables you to think less.”

Episode Summary

• John’s memories of his musical family, and how they led to his first career in radio.
• The key to connecting with clients and taking a genuine interest in their needs and goals.

Tune in for next week’s episode as John offers his advice for sharing bad news in a professional way, his AI tool recommendations, and tips on overcoming our tendency to assume the worst.

Connect with the Audio Branding

“There’s three groups of people. When there’s a crisis, there are three people you need to talk to, including your employees, your stakeholders, your suppliers, whatever, and the public… You’ve got to get out there and tell your employees it’s okay, you’re going to be safe, and you need to tell the managers beneath you that, hey, you’re going to be okay, here’s what we’re going to do. But if you’re not communicating on a crisis level, that’s horrible. But a company that is always communicating with its employees, its stakeholders, and the public, if it’s always doing that, then it becomes just a kind of a natural thing.” – David Tyler

This episode is the second half of my conversation with media and communication coach David Tyler as we discuss the key to maintaining effective communications during a crisis, how remote work has changed the way we share knowledge, and what makes sound more important than ever.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available and what the newest audio chats will be about. If you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help – and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts.

(0:00:00) - Communication Strategies for Effective Leadership

The second half of our discussion starts with David’s advice for business leaders looking to build both team rapport and a stronger brand. “A lot of times,” he says, “managers are just pushed up the ladder and given no training about how to be a better communicator. But I think probably the biggest thing that managers need to know is how to communicate vision.” We talk about some of the latest headlines and how they’ve tested each company’s communication strategies, and the technological barriers that he sees when it comes to making a connection. “One of the other things that I teach managers,” he says, “is that listening is 50% of the conversation, and I emphasize that with them. It’s important to listen actively, to put away your phone, [and] to put away any kind of distractions.”

(0:10:03) - Media Interview Preparation and Communication Tips

David shares his thoughts on branding and communicating through the media, and tips for anyone facing a surprise interview. “What do you think they’re going to ask?” he suggests. “And write those questions down and have a list of the questions with the answers, so that you already have an answer.” He offers a playful example of how to keep an interview on track when I ask him about his hair color. “That’s a really good question,” he quips, “but I think what we should talk about is the financial problems we’re having in Ottawa.” As he explains, “You need to have the things you want the public to know ready to go and then find a way to weave those things into the interview.”

(0:13:33) - The Importance of Non-Verbal Communication

As our conversation comes to a close, David and I talk about how much subtext can be carried by sound and all the non-verbal cues that surround it. “Meaning happens between the words,” he explains, “in the same way that a musician can play a song and then a great musician can take that exact same song, that exact same melody, and put so much meaning into it to drive you to tears.” We discuss AI’s role in the future of audio branding, and he shares an observation from...