“I don’t know if you can see it, [but] that’s an octopus. Yeah, on my upper arm. If you’re not watching this, the audio version is, there’s sunlight coming through and it’s dappling across this octopus. I’m a scuba diver. I really did believe, when I was young, that I was going to be a marine mammal biologist. That was my destiny. I watched Jacques Cousteau and I was all about it, and then life happened and I wasn’t all about it. It was until later in life that I got into scuba diving.” – Michael Dargie

This week’s guest is a storyteller, creative instigator, occasional octopus whisperer, and founder of Make More Creative. He mentors with Calgary Economic Development and Canada’s Trade Accelerator Program, and speaks regularly at incubators, colleges, and universities. He’s the author of BrandJitsu™: Move Your Brand From ‘Meh’ To Memorable, a methodology that helps companies find, shape, and share their stories, and he’s a creative chaos agent with Loose Moose Theatre and Dropbear & Panda Productions, and the host of the multi-nominated RebelRebel podcast.

His name is Michael Dargie, and in this episode, we’ll be diving into the power of sound in storytelling, branding, and bold creative expression. From podcasting to performance, he shares how voice and sound shape everything he creates—emotionally, strategically, and playfully. You’ll hear how his experiences as a comedian, filmmaker, and entrepreneur all connect through the thread of sound. And whether you’re a fellow storyteller or just love great audio, you’ll leave this conversation inspired to find your own voice, and maybe stir up a little creative trouble while you’re at it.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(00:00) - Becoming an Octopus Whisperer

We start the conversation off with Michael’s early memories of sound, which in his case includes gunslinger ballads on the family stereo. “I would just listen to these songs,” he says, “these stories, and just get lost in the moment. I would let my brain drift away and see it all happening.” He also tells us more about what it means to be an octopus whisperer. “I have been diving with them,” he explains, “I’ve interacted with them, I’ve hung out with them. I love them. They’re. They’re smart. They’ve got, like, nine brains. You know, each arm has its own brain. It’s like distributive intelligence.”

(13:01) - Creative Rebel in Sound

Michael talks more about being a creative rebel, and how his podcast, The RebelRebel Podcast, aims for people who don’t necessarily fit just one creative box. “It’s for creative rebels and entrepreneurs,” he says, “people that go left when people go right, you zig when others zag, and I’m curious about that story. So if you fit that model, then you’d be a great fit to the show.” We discuss his improv comedy experience and the lessons it taught him about marketing. “[Improv] is a huge part of it,” he tells us. “Like, you agree to what’s happening and then see where it goes instead of blocking the...

“I think there’s nothing that truly resonates across all of your senses like sound does. If I’m watching something gorgeous, it’s a feast for my eyes, and it starts and ends there. But if I’m listening to something, it’s the one thing that can truly always be in your brain presence — always bringing things up or bringing things down. I mean, if you’re in a bad mood, one of the five ways to get out of it is going to be put on music, guaranteed.” – Jeremy Toeman

This episode is the second half of my conversation with founder of Augie, media and technology leader, and entrepreneur Jeremy Toeman as we discuss the sometimes-random twists and turns that created social media as we know it, the lessons he’s drawn from video-game design to help improve audio-first UX, and his perspective on balancing AI efficiency and human authenticity.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(00:00) - The Role of Sound in Branding

The second half of our discussion begins with a look at podcasting, and why Fortune-500 interviews aren’t always the best approach for a business podcast. “They’re not really leverage-able,” he explains. “There’s not a lot of practical value in, like, ‘he gets up at 5 AM every day and does a 20-minute cold plunge, and he doesn’t look at any device and only eats oysters.’ Okay, but I’m never going to do that.” We talk about what AI has to offer podcasters and about how its ability to sift through user data and predict trends can impact even the most seemingly human elements. “I had someone blow my mind the other day,” he says, “He got on my podcast, and he had used an AI tool to listen to my other episodes and then predict for him what questions I would ask him… And it was pretty on spot.”

(12:15) - Practical Tips for Creators

We talk about UX design for everything from software apps to smart devices, and how he’s taking his cues from the video game industry. “Think about tech products,” he says, “video games have music. They have sound effects, music... There should be so much more in our tech world where audio can make it a more satisfying experience..” He tells us about his daughter, who’s just published her first indie video game, and the hands-on approach to Foley sound effects that her experience taught him. “We were in my car and it was making this weird noise when you open the door,” he recalls, “and she’s like, hang on, can everybody be quiet? And she grabbed her phone and went to record it.”

(20:00) - Enhancing Your Brand Identity

As our conversation comes to a close, Jeremy talks more about the power of sound as a branding tool. “I think there’s nothing that truly resonates across all of your senses like sound does, right?” he says. “Like, if I’m watching something gorgeous, it’s a feast of my eyes, and it starts and ends there.” He tells us about his upcoming projects and AI developments, and how he’s working to balance the human and AI elements of new media. “We don’t want to take away from video editing or voiceover actors...

“I love the use of AI voices or synthetic voices for people who might, you know, they’re embarrassed. I’ve worked with engineers my whole career, and sometimes, like, it’s not that they don’t want to tell their story or break something out there, but maybe they just don’t have the self-confidence or they were made fun of as a kid. I mean, I’ve always thought I had a super nasally voice and never liked the sound of my voice. And years into public speaking, I’m like, fine, I can, handle it now. So I love it from that perspective of, if, for some reason you couldn’t, now you can. I hate it from the perspective of, well, you can’t have the human do all this stuff, but instead you just sort of one-clicked it and now it’s sort of an average, generic, mediocre, you know, as they say, AI slop.” – Jeremy Toeman

This episode’s guest is the founder and CEO of Augie, an AI-assisted video creation and editing studio for marketers and social media managers. He’s also the creator and host of Founder at 50, a podcast and newsletter exploring the challenges and reinventions faced by entrepreneurs later in life. He’s held leadership roles at WarnerMedia, Etsy, CBS Interactive, and Sling Media, and founded several successful startups in the media tech space. His name is Jeremy Toeman, and we’ll be digging into how sound shapes trust, helps tech feel more human, and why even a simple “ding” can change a user’s experience. If you love the magic where tech and storytelling meet, this one’s for you.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(00:00) - The Emotional Power of Sound

Our discussion starts with Jeremy’s early memories of sound, including a childhood movie that’s made a lifelong impression on him. “They incorporate, like, opera,” he describes 1979’s Breaking Away, “into the scenes. When he’s bike racing, you’re hearing like The Marriage of Figaro in the background. And the last time I watched it through, there’s something, like, every time the music would hit these moments, I’m just like weeping on my couch.” He shares his perspective as both a child and a parent when it comes to watching scary movies, and we talk about the hidden role cinematic sound plays in setting the mood. “If you not only turn on the lights,” he explains, “but simply mute it... They might still get tense, but, like, the thing that rocks them to their core goes completely away.”

(11:46) - The Evolution of Audio Technology

Jeremy tells us more about his career journey, including the pioneering MP3 and streaming technologies he helped develop around the turn of the millennium, and how the limitations of the early internet led to a stronger focus on sound quality. “If the video buffered,” he explains, “you would be expecting it. It was normal. It was 2005, all video buffered, there was no such thing as non-buffering video. Whereas if the audio skipped even a little bit, it would just be really jarring.” He discusses some of the major brands he’s worked for, such as CBS and WarnerMedia,...

“That’s a big thing that I always like to try to put together in the shows — creating the sense of space, where we are taking that audience somewhere. And sonically, what does that sound like? I like having a lot of detail on, okay, this space, i.e. this portion of the episode. It’s like, if I go back to the American Kennel Club example, okay, this is Missouri in the 1850s in the summer. Okay, cool. I can work within that. There’s a lot of information and detail there that I could pull out.” – Joshua Suhy

This episode is the second half of my conversation with JSS Audio Sound Designer, Audio Engineer, and Producer Joshua Suhy as we discuss how he helps synergize the aural and visual components of a branded podcast, his advice to people who are still building a reputation in the sound industry, and the best strategy to new podcasters looking to avoid the dreaded “podcast graveyard.”

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(00:00) - The Importance of Sonic Branding

As the second half of our discussion begins, Joshua talks about his work with marketing teams and what it takes to align a new audio brand with an established visual identity. “A missed opportunity that lots of brands aren't paying attention to is trying to figure out what do we sound like,” he says. “How are we coming across to an audience on an audio, an aural component versus just visual?” We discuss how music and sonic logos fit into branded podcasts, and about the versatility of original music content. “You can begin to see the possibilities,” he explains, “if you own the IP, [of] how much more capability you have creatively if you actually own the content that you're working with.”

(14:20) - Branded Podcasts and Flagship Shows

We talk about sound design and his advice for sound engineers who are just starting out in the industry. “The biggest thing, I think,” he says, “is to establish rapport with the agency or the people that you're working with, being able to trust them, but with the understanding that it's a symbiotic relationship between the two of you.” He tells us about how branded podcasts differ from regular content, and how the branding goes beyond just commercials and interstitials. “A big thing is really being able to figure out what is your voice,” he says. “What is the brand voice? What are you looking for in your show? What audience do you want to reach? And, essentially, creating an audience avatar of this.”

(20:30) - Advice for New Audio Professionals

Our conversation wraps up as Joshua explains why it’s better to start slow as a podcaster, and why monetization shouldn’t necessarily be the primary goal. “If it leads to that, that's great,” he tells us. “But if your sole and only motivation behind your podcast is to make money, chances are you're going to be disappointed, and chances are your show is going to end up in the podcast graveyard with a lot of other people.” He shares how listeners can get in touch, and why sound designers shouldn’t write off their...

“But from that point, it was just a matter of, okay, I’ve got to put all this kind of stuff together now. And now that there isn’t a moving image that I’m necessarily locked into, I wield more power in regards to molding the action, so I could decide how a scene breaks down. And I think the example that I had given to you was, if we have a scene where two characters are in a room or one character walks up to another one, I can decide, am I the character already in the room? Or am I the person outside of the room coming up to the other character? Because obviously those are two vastly different sound design approaches.” – Joshua Suhy

This week’s guest is the founder of JSS Audio and a veteran of over fifteen years in the audio industry as a Sound Designer, Audio Engineer and Producer. His goal is to capture the essence of creative people’s ideas and bring tangible experiences to their audiences. Helping people tell stories through sound is his passion. His name is Joshua Suhy, and we’ll be talking about the subtle power of audio, the unexpected moments that define a mix, and why even the smallest sound can shape how we experience a story. If you want to learn how sound can influence feeling, this episode’s for you.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(00:00) - Using AI in Sound Design

Our conversation starts off with how Joshua has been putting AI to work for him in the studio, from finding gigs to helping manage his schedule. “One thing that I use it a lot for is to send me, like, a digest every morning of verified, paid, open audio gigs,” he explains. “I'm trying to use AI for the sake of what AI is supposed to do, [to] try to make my life easier.” He shares his early memories of sounds and the path that led him to become a sound engineer and producer, including a memorable sound editing project in his film class “Specifically it was the Bugs Bunny vs Elmer Fudd boxing match,” he says, “being able to blend real life sound effects, and we had the Hanna-Barbera sound library available at the school. So I'm like, I have [all] the stuff that I had always heard as a kid.”

(18:30) - Transition to Audio Production

The discussion turns to how the pandemic created a podcast boom that helped revolutionize audio and deepened Joshua’s approach to sound engineering. “Over time, we've changed it to where we wanna have full control over what's going on,” he tells us, “in regards to sending microphones out to people, sound checking people, making sure that they sound as good as possible, because I want the best quality coming in.” We talk about how audio standards loosened at the height of the pandemic as more people than ever before joined the podcasting sphere, and how technology has been working since to close the gap between home and work studios. “What I liked about it, though,” he explains, “was [how] it humanized podcasting and humanized the personalities... So being able to see, in an interview, somebody's child [walking] in the room, like these are people with real life...

“Step sounds in a game is a sample being repeated, and then people start to make little variations in pitch of this sample. And then they became increasingly sophisticated with middleware, and so a whole set of software emerged, a type of software game, audio middleware, that serves only the purpose of making sound, usually sample-based sounds, pleasurable to use in an interactive context. And there are many different strategies, layering, adaptive mixing, even spectral shaping and stuff like that. And, of course, generative approaches as well are coming in, and that’s so interesting.” – Daniel Hug

This episode is the second half of my conversation with sound and interaction designer, researcher, and head of the Sound Design MA at Zurich University of the Arts, Daniel Hug, as we talk about what the Avengers and Matrix movies can teach us about sound design, how video games helped pave the way for audio-first UX, and the importance of learning not just music but the language of sound.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - The Evolution of Sound Design

As we start the second half of our discussion, Daniel and I talk about how Hollywood blockbusters have shown that a strong first impression can have diminishing returns, and how video-game design demonstrates the value of planning for repetition when it comes to sound. “Game sound, I always say, it has taught me probably the most about interactive or use-oriented sound design,” he explains. “Although you would not expect it from there, it’s not product sound design, it has nothing to do with cars or appliances or whatever, but it’s the [same] basic mechanisms. It’s about interaction.” We talk about his work on electric vehicle soundscapes and the sound designs in sci-fi movies that helped shape his design philosophy. “The sound of the car changes based on the way I press the gas pedal,” he says. “So if I’m being too aggressive, the sound can actually tell me, make me feel that, oh, now you’re overdoing it. And that’s what a film sound designer would do in a science-fiction film.”

(0:14:37) - Empowering Sound Design for Everyday Life

Daniel tells us more about the considerations that go into automobile sound design, including legal concerns that go well beyond the car’s interior. “In Europe,” he tells us, “they have this regulation that from zero to thirty you have to have some noise generator. So even Teslas have, since, I don’t know how many years, but eventually they started to make noise as well.” We talk about how COVID and the shift to virtual spaces and online content brought more attention to sound design, and how the language to describe sounds is still evolving. “We have all kinds of visual languages that are established and normative, so to say,” he explains. “They tell us how to think, or to think of a certain image. In sound, especially if it’s non-musical, this is often missing. We have to come up with something.”

Episode...

“And I read this book, it was about acoustic communication. It was about how sound in everyday life mediates our relationship to the environment, and how we use it to communicate with each other, and so on, and that opens really a totally new field for me. So this was kind of the ignition, probably, for me to enter the non-musical sound world, which I’m still in. So there’s the world of noises, of everyday sounds and so on, and that’s how it started, basically. And from there I then came into interaction game design more or less by accident, and they had no one that knew anything about sound. And I kind of built up in this relatively new field of interaction game design at the time. This was in the early noughties.” – Daniel Hug

This episode’s guest is a sound and interaction designer who co-directs the Master’s in Sound Design at Zurich University of the Arts. His work explores how sound shapes our experiences, from health technology to movement and education. He’s a leader in Sonic Interaction Design who serves on the steering committees for key sound design conferences and awards, and through research, teaching, and hands-on design, he bridges science, creativity, and business. He’s also a fellow jury member of the International Sound Awards, which is how we met. His name is Dr. Daniel Hug, and we’ll be exploring how sound can influence how we feel, move, and interact with the world around us.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:01) - Exploring Early Sound Memories and Design

Our conversation starts with Daniel’s earliest memory of sound, a lightning bolt striking a river one night when he was child. “It was like somebody just jumping on top of a huge church organ,” he says, “with the whole body, like really all the keys playing at once… it was really amazing, [and] I have never heard this again.” We talk about how he got into sound, from jazz school and piano lessons to his early work on video-game sound design, and he recalls how a book by composer Barry Truax changed his perspective on sound and music. “It was about acoustic communication,” Daniel recalls. “It was about how sound in everyday life mediates our relationship to the environment and how we use it to communicate with each other and so on, and that opened a totally new field for me.”

(0:13:19) - Creating Environmental Sound Innovations

Our discussion turns to his work with Caru, a medical company whose devices use an audio-first UX, and the importance of considering how such work contributes to and fits into the user’s soundscape. “That’s our sonic environment and that’s our relationship to this environment,” he explains, “and by designing it, we design experiences or we contribute to experiences which are multi-sensory all the time. So even if there is no sound, there is a sound, but it’s one that you didn’t design.” We talk about how he draws inspiration from such wide-ranging sources as nature sounds to sci-fi movies, and how quickly those sounds can become integrated into our everyday...

“I said, ‘this is a tsunami that is coming, and I'm either going to be crushed by it and drowned under it and it's going to destroy everything I've built, or I'm going to learn to surf the big waves, and I'm going to do whatever I have to do to surf this wave,’ which is what I did sort of at the dawn of online video. I was sort of one of the first probably one hundred agencies in the country that were consistently making online video back in 2008 or 2009. So was a brand new thing, right? And so, I just decided, okay, I'm going to do that again. And once I made that decision, I actually got excited again, and my entrepreneurial instincts kicked in, and it was not fun. I sort of had to set off a grenade in the middle of my own business and say, okay, I'm going to start over.” – Wil Seabrook

This episode is the second half of my conversation with singer, songwriter, and Light Touch Media Group’s founder and chief creative Wil Seabrook as we talk about where the AI revolution is leading the music industry, the one mistake small-business owners and freelancers make when it comes to finding clients, and how a retro-themed ad campaign made a splash in the TikTok era.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:01) - Navigating AI in Changing Business Landscape

The second half of our conversation picks up with a look at AI’s growing impact on the music industry, and where Wil sees it all heading. “I am an eternal optimist as a person,” he explains, “and so I think we are in so many ways we're actually headed for a golden age. I think we're going to solve a lot of logistical problems, a lot of medical and health problems.” He tells us more about how we might eventually get to that point, and some of the hurdles we’ll need to overcome, and the role human artists have to play. “It needs artists, it needs creative people guiding it, shaping it,” he says. “If you're going to change the system, essentially change it from the inside. I think that's very important.”

(0:10:29) - Evolution of Technology in Business

Wil shares the biggest mistake he sees when working with voice talent: “The number one mistake that I see small business owners of all kinds make, but this absolutely goes for voiceover artists [and] other types of creative people, they just don't promote remotely enough.” He offers his tips on getting your name and brand out there as an artist, and the value of human creativity, even if it seems like AI can do it all. “If you have an innate talent that moves people,” Wil says, “that people gravitate toward, it's special and it's worth cultivating. It's worth persisting, it's worth learning and stumbling and scraping your knees and getting back up again, because that's not a gift that everybody's given.”

Episode Summary

• AI's impact on the music industry, and how business models have begun to adapt.
• How COVID-19 democratized audio production and where things might be...