“So put on some good music, especially music with a very steady beat. Every time you have focus, yeah, every time that beat goes, it drips a little bit of dopamine. So that’s another reason why we also can support people with, with their gait, like with walking because we need that little bit of drip of dopamine when we walk. It actually naturally happens. But for people that have a challenge with that, like for Parkinson’s, maybe a stroke, that gets affected. So if we have a very steady beat, boom, boom, every little bit, dopamine drips, and it actually helps to regulate our system and anticipate when to take those steps. Yeah, so that’s just one.” – Noel Anderson

This episode is the second half of my conversation with director of Anderson Music Therapy and board-certified music therapist Noel Anderson as we talk about music’s effect on our brain chemistry and cortisol levels, the different effects that making music and listening to music have on our brains, and the role sound and music can play in treating such disorders as PTSD and depression.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available and what the newest audio chats will be about. If you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help – and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts.

(0:00:00) - Music and Memory

Our conversation continues as we talk about music’s effect on our brains’ neural connections and how we experience the world around us. “The experiences we have,” Noel explains, “everything affects those neural connections and what gets formed, what doesn’t get formed, um, so, yeah, so this is a big question.” We discuss sound’s power to help boost our dopamine levels and manage depression, and how she’s helped Alzheimer’s patients reconnect with their past through the power of music. “I think if you keep your mind as active as possible,” she says, “then you can at least hopefully slow it down. And I think music is one of those things. Like I said, it exercises the whole brain and so if you can keep that connection to other people, that’s going to keep you healthy.”

(0:09:53) - The Impact of Music Therapy

We talk about the different therapeutic roles that making music and listening to music play, and she tells us more about mirror neurons and music’s ability to engage our deepest social instincts. “It’s that active participation that actually connects us to people,” she tells us, “whether it’s moving to drums or even moving at a concert, you know, dancing. That actually can increase empathy.” Our conversation turns to managing stress and depression, and to how she’s helping parents and children bond through music therapy. “What I like about the drum,” Noel says, “is that you’re face-to-face, and so a lot of research shows that having that facial affect again, those mirror neurons connecting back and forth, that is really, really important for attachment and for bonding with your child.”

(0:16:51) - Accessing Music Therapy Services

As our discussion comes to a close, we take a look at some of the online resources out there for finding a licensed music therapist, and how much of it might be covered by insurance. “It depends on your diagnosis,” Noel explains, “depends on the insurance you have, depends on the specific goals that

“I had a client in the practice that they, well, what they said is, ‘I am disabled because of mental health and PTSD symptoms, and music therapy’s helping me work through many issues very directly in a way that years of talk therapy hasn’t been able to touch.’ For this individual, they had been through years of talk therapy, and for some people, that is very valuable and very helpful, myself included. But like myself, I had to start with music therapy first because it just accesses the brain in a different way. It accesses the body in a different way than just talking.” – Noel Anderson

This week’s guest is the founder of Anderson Music Therapy Services and has been a board-certified music therapist for over fifteen years. Her journey started with a Bachelor of Music in Music Therapy from Immaculata University, followed by a clinical internship at the Kardon Institute for Arts Therapy in Philadelphia. Driven by a desire for growth, she pursued specialized training, earning certification in Neurologic Music Therapy at Colorado State University, certification as a Trauma Professional, and a Master of Music Therapy degree from Temple University. Before founding her practice in Roanoke, Virginia, she developed a school-based music therapy program for individuals of all ages and abilities. Her love of music began early – she’s been performing since the age of ten through voice, guitar, piano, and flute – and her impact extends globally, benefiting communities in Africa and India.

Her name is Noel Anderson and I’ve been looking forward to chatting with her about all the ways we can harness the power of sound to motivate us, to help us heal and to improve our lives. Keep listening because I know you’re going to get some invaluable golden nuggets from this discussion!

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available and what the newest audio chats will be about. If you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help – and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts.

(0:00:00) - The Power of Music Therapy

We start things off with Noel’s early memories of sound, from the tiger song she wrote before she’d even learned to spell to her discovery in college of how music therapy could help others. “I didn’t always have a very easy time identifying my emotions or being able to express my emotions,” she recalls. “I was very shy. So music just was how I would express myself.” She tells us more about the board certification process that becoming a licensed music therapist involves, and about her work helping children in Africa and India. “I spoke of how music works with developmental disabilities and neurologically,” she explains, “and then we were able to work, you know, hands-on with the kids and co-treat with the therapists there and the doctors, and it was a really great experience.”

(0:07:27) - Global Impact of Music Therapy

Our conversation turns to the neurological impact of music, and its ability to influence and even redirect our body states. “It’s one of the few things in the world that activates so many [neurons],” Noel explains. “It exercises the whole brain, and that’s why it can get our attention very easily rather than just speaking alone.” She talks more about how sound can help regulate the nervous system and shares...

“I agree that humans will always want to work with humans and that we’re gonna always favor it in a lot of ways, especially because of the spontaneity, the creativity, the vibe. Kids love to use the word vibe, but we want the vibe and AI doesn’t have the vibe. Kids are really good at detecting AI, really good at it…. They pick it out way before their parents. So they’re really tuned into it. So I think that’s what’s going to keep it at bay in terms of being a true creative tool for really a long time.” – Sean Savage

This episode is the second half of my Clubhouse discussion with voice actor and Sound Off Media Company owner Matt Cundill, Home Studio Mastery founder Junaid Ahmed, podcast producer and AR Media host Sean Savage, Spoken Life Media founder and Podcast Hall of Fame Inductee Rob Greenlee, and long-time podcaster and audio technology consultant George Whittam, as we discuss the future of AI, what sets machine and human learning apart, and building your own AI clone.

As always, if you have questions for my panelists, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available and what the newest audio chats will be about. If you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help – and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts.

(0:00:00) - AI and the Future of Technology

The second half of our conversation begins as we talk about the impact of AI on everything from social media to politics, and what that might mean for its future. “I interviewed David Pogue earlier this year,” George says, “and he’s done a tremendous amount of AI research and experimenting, and he’s like, it hasn’t yet swung an election that we know of, so maybe we shouldn’t be too worried. But it’s just something to think about, and I think about it all the time.” The topic turns to AGI, or Artificial General Intelligence. “That day is coming,” Rob tells us. “I don’t know if it’s five years from now, ten years from now, that it surpasses, you know, the ability to think and process information, um, better than a human, but I think it’s coming and once that happens, it’s going to change everything.”

(0:06:44) - Ethical Implications of AI Use

We talk about the ethics of AI usage, and whether there’s any practical difference between how AI models are trained and how children naturally learn. “Even if your older brother is telling you ‘don’t copy me,’” Junaid notes, “guess what? Your younger siblings are still going to copy them. There’s no lawsuit against that. You know, that’s how human beings are literally taught.” George describes his experience with feeding an AI all his writing content to help it learn his writing style, and we discuss the prospect and legality of such AI ‘clones.’ “If you went and scraped pretty much all the work that you’ve done and voiced,” Matt says, “packaged it up to create an AI model, you then can own the licensing of that AI voice and be paid for it. But if somebody else went and did it, the answer would be no. But, as we’ve discussed, some people are out there doing it and saying ‘tough beans.’”

(0:17:45) - AI Usage and Ethical Concerns

The conversation turns from creating new content with AI to revisiting old content through the lens of machine learning. George talks about old recordings and the potential to restore them and add sound elements that have been...

“With AI coming along, I sort of look at more things being added into the workflow over the last year or so. A lot of it is, like, transcription, but also, ‘how are we gonna title the podcast?’ Show notes being written, I’m a little bit leery of, but it is used to assist in the process to write better show notes. So, I think for a long time, a lot of people have skipped over that, and AI has allowed us to write better show notes. That doesn’t mean copy-and-paste them in because AI is not... AI is, it’s an absolutely horrible writer. And I think one of the things that, I know this will come up in our discussion today, is that when you see AI stuff just being copied and pasted, you know that it has been copied and pasted.” – Matt Cundall

If there’s one topic that has captured the collective psyche over the past few years, it’s AI. But while the topic is fascinating, the uses are endless, and figuring out where it best fits into your work process is another matter entirely. The group I recently assembled on Clubhouse to talk about AI in Podcasting included a lot of veterans in the area of audio, video, and podcasting. They include voice actor and owner of The Sound Off Media Company, Matt Cundill; founder of Home Studio Mastery, Junaid Ahmed; on-air host and technical producer, mastering engineer, and podcast and audiobook post-production professional at AR Media, Sean Savage; founder of Spoken Life Media, LLC and Podcast Hall of Fame Inductee Rob Greenlee; and long-time audio technology consultant and co-host of the Pro Audio Suite Podcast, George Whittam. Each one of them had valuable insights into what tools work best for them and what tools you might want to look into for your own production.

Considering where the industry is heading, it’s probably a good idea to learn as much as you can about all these new and time-saving options. I hope you find this discussion super helpful!

As always, if you have questions for my panelists, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available and what the newest audio chats will be about. If you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help – and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts.

(0:00:00) - AI Tools in Podcast Creation

Our roundtable discussion starts as Matt introduces himself and discusses some of the strengths and weak spots of AI software, particularly when it comes to making corrections. “These tools,” he says, “have really helped, but I think if you rely on it too much, one of the things that we found out is that you can just waste as much time just by having to make corrections.” Rob joins in and shares his thoughts on the competition between cutting-edge AI startups and the major brands that are now catching up. “Some of the larger platforms,” he says, “are adding greater AI capability to them, and it’s putting a little bit in jeopardy some of the standalone AI kind of services or tools out there.”

(0:11:30) - AI Tools in Podcast Post-Production

Junaid introduces himself as well, and he tells us about some of the latest breakthroughs he’s seen in synthetic AI voices and the business boom for the voiceover artists behind them. “When they introduced the professional voice,” he says, “like, if you go in now, you can actually use some of the celebrity voices for your own stuff as well, and they’re getting paid...

“We typically think about music as a listening experience, playing an instrument, dancing. And I think that’s like a narrow view of seeing, of looking at this concept of music. And that was one of the inspirations. What I wanted to do in this book was to show that there’s another way of thinking about music that’s completely different from this, let’s say, three main ways we think about music. So if you step a little bit outside these traditional associations we have with what music is, you can find that, as we talked about, sound can affect plant development, it can influence the growth, the health of the plant. It can alter our sense of taste, enhance or diminish their own flavors. It can impact our moods. It can uplift us, calm us, energize us… and, well, audio branding uses that a lot, because emotions sell at the end of the day.” – Pavle Marinkovic

This episode is the second half of my conversation with writer and audio branding consultant Pavle Marinkovic as we discuss how music can influence our shopping habits, the latest research into sound’s effect on our cellular metabolism, and whether plants prefer Vedic chants or rock music.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available and what the newest audio chats will be about. If you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help – and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts.

(0:00:00) - The Influence of Music on Plants

As the second half of our discussion starts, Pavle tells us about sound’s effect on plants, including an experiment in India that found plants prefer Vedic chants and classical music over rock. “The plants grew taller,” he explains, “they had bigger flowers, and they had more flowers than the rock condition, and they also saw that the plants were growing towards the speaker.” He talks about the discovery that music can affect the growth of microorganisms such as E. Coli, and the dramatic difference that simply playing the right music made at a waste-treatment plant. “After a year of using this classical music,” Pavle says, “they were able to save ten thousand euros in the cost of transporting this sludge, so they reduced the amount of sludge produced by these sewage treatment plants.”

(0:16:30) - The Power of Sound and Music

We discuss the use of sound in shaping public behavior in recent years, from dispersing riots to chasing away loiterers, and how music can influence our behavior without us even realizing it. “For instance,” Pavle notes, “you can use the tempo of the music to make people either shop more, faster or slower, because they would unconsciously adapt to the sound cues that were at that moment happening.” He tells us why he believes sound is more important than we realize, and the growing research into music’s health benefits. “We think of music as a listening experience,” he observes, “playing an instrument, dancing, and I think that’s like a narrow view of looking at this concept of music.”

(0:24:24) - Exploring Music’s Impact Across Industries

Our conversation closes as Pavle tells us about his latest audio branding projects. “I’m always, always writing about music,” he says, “I’m also consulting on audio branding with people who have some, let’s say, problems with how to strategize about creating a...

“When I started researching how music affected all these different parts of the food life cycle, I stumbled upon research about how it changed our perception of taste, how it can make beer taste more bitter or wine have a more full body. So I said, well, I love chocolate, and I stumbled across a food chocolate factory in the middle of Madrid. And I said, well, let’s try it. If there’s so much research on all these other things, let’s see if there’s also something that can happen with chocolate.” – Pavle Marinkovic

This episode’s guest is a psychologist with a master’s degree in film scoring. He’s worked in a pioneering audio branding firm in Madrid and later in a market research company that used facial recognition software to scan and create emotional maps of different content, including music. Currently, he wears many hats: writer, researcher, audio branding consultant, music teacher, and violinist, and all these facets of sound are deeply intertwined in his daily work.

His name is Pavle Marinkovic, and he’s also the author of Sounds From Farm to Fork (And Back), where he talks about the impact sound and music can have on the food life cycle. I asked him about his research and the details are fascinating. If you’re a farmer, a garden hobbyist, a marketer, a restaurateur, or interested in more effective waste control and recycling, this is a discussion you don’t want to miss! It’s astonishing to realize just how much of a difference sound can make in all these things.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available and what the newest audio chats will be about. If you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help – and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts.

(0:00:01) - Exploring Music and Audio Branding

Our conversation starts with a look back at Pavle’s early memories of sound, or, in this case, the story his grandmother tells about how he attended his first opera at eight months old, and how he tried to join in with the singers. “That wasn’t acceptable for my grandmother,” he adds, “and so she ended up rushing us out. But she always tells me this story.” He shares his career journey from film scoring to sound research, and a pioneering research project that used facial recognition technology to create emotional maps of people’s reactions to sound. “You could show them a lot of different music pieces,” he recalls, “and then, depending on the reaction, you would say which ones they are more favorable towards, and you could create the building blocks of your sound for that customer.”

(0:14:17) - The Influence of Music on Taste

Pavle tells us about how the pandemic offered a key insight into the hidden power of sound, and about his work with a chocolate company in Madrid that discovered a surprising link between sound pitch and sweetness. “There’s much more than we really know about music,” he says, “and they’re discovering a bunch of stuff all the time, so we need to take it more seriously than it is.” We discuss the impact of sound on consumer behavior, and how it can drive people without them even realizing it. “With fast-paced music, they would drink more frequently,” he explains. “When we played slow music, they would take more time. You would see the glasses full for a longer...

“Essentially, what musicians really need to understand is that the power to find success in sync is extremely accessible, and it’s right there in front of them as long as they’re willing to go and get it. There is no gate, right? There’s no gatekeeper. There’s nothing that you have to do or have, and there’s no one you have to know. It’s really just about being willing, and being willing to learn the ropes and do the work. – Nismah Osman

This episode is the second half of my conversation with sync licensing expert and Music Licensing Mastery founder Nismah Osman as we discuss the social media grind indie musicians face these days, her advice for getting into sync licensing, and the hidden power of music in today’s world.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available and what the newest audio chats will be about. If you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help – and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts.

(0:00:00) - The Future of Music and Technology

Our discussion continues as we talk about how AI is transforming the music industry, and Nismah’s thoughts on whether it can replace sync musicians altogether. “It’s quality over quantity,” she explains. “Sometimes, you know, you can have a hundred really, really not-so-great tracks, and you have a hundred of them, sure, but they may not have the same value as one piece of really high-quality content.” We take a look at some of the other industries that have been shaken up by AI and what it might mean for sound. “It’s nuanced,” she says, “and I think there’s good and bad and everything in between. And it’s going to be something that kind of shows its true colors over time.”

(0:07:39) - Opportunities in Sync Licensing

Nismah tells us about her experience as a musician and gives us an inside look at how social media and streaming platforms have changed the game for indie artists. “When I was on there,” she recalls, “I was witnessing and participating in the sheer amount of effort that musicians are putting into, you know, building these social followings just to try to convert them into streaming numbers.” She talks about how the pandemic transformed online gig work and helped her jump-start her music career, and the opportunities she’s found in writing music for sync licensing. “One of the many things I love about sync is that, really, there’s room for everyone,” she says. “The likelihood is really in your favor that you’re going to be able to find opportunities for whatever kind of music you make.”

(0:14:13) - The Significance of Sound and Music

As our conversation comes to a close, we talk about what it takes as a musician to make the jump into sync licensing, and her practical advice getting started. “The great thing is,” Nismah says, “most of the time, in my experience, you’re not starting from zero. You really do have a lot going for you. You just have to figure out what’s working, lean into those things, and then outsource the rest.” We also discuss the power of sound in today’s world, from lowering stress to building the soundtrack of our lives. “That’s why the music and the audio and the film industry are so huge,” she notes, “and why there’s such a huge demand, because sound and music and audio, it all matters, it all adds to that depth...

“I think people just kind of were, like, ‘Oh, hi,’ you know. They were supportive, they were nice, and, you know, they could tell I was a kid who had no idea what I was doing but was obviously passionate about music. I do remember one guy, though, telling me to make sure I went to college for something other than music and, at the time, I was like, ‘Okay, I’ll consider that.’ But he was really telling me, like, ‘I don’t know if you have what it takes.’ But I didn’t follow his advice. I ended up going to school for music, which I still am trying to figure out was a good or bad decision.” – Nismah Osman

This episode’s guest is a songwriter, producer, vocalist, entrepreneur, feminist, and more. She’s been writing and producing songs for herself and other artists since 2005. She stumbled into the world of selling her music for film and television in 2011 and has since cracked the code on how to fund your passion for music. Her music has been featured in such series as Love is Blind, Dancing with the Stars, and Temptation Island. Some of her other wins include a degree from Berklee, songwriting and production credits on hundreds of songs, and a chance to learn from songwriting legend Kara DioGuardi, and she runs a vacation rental business on the Jersey shore as a side hustle.

Her name is Nismah Osman, and she has a lot to share about how to make a living from making music these days. The industry’s certainly changed from even just five years ago. If you want to hear how Nismah does it, and how she’s helping other artists do the same, keep listening!

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available and what the newest audio chats will be about. If you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help – and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts.

(0:00:00) - Journey From Songwriting to Music Career

We start things off with a look back at Nismah’s early memories of sound, and how a songwriting convention in her small town led to her very first sync licensing gig. “Obviously I was the youngest person in the room,” she recalls, “and I had no idea what I was doing. But I showed up with my little you know CD, you know, demos that I burned the night before.” She tells us about some of the encouragement, and the warnings, she got from older musicians, and a chance meeting at the next year’s convention that, at age thirteen, became her first music deal. “To this day, I get royalty checks for that song,” she says. “So that was like the first taste of like, ‘Okay, I can actually do this.’”

(0:12:18) - Navigating Sync Licensing and Musical Opportunities

Nismah explains what sync licensing means, and the opportunities it presents for musicians. “The very short version of it,” she says, “is the music you hear in TV shows, movies, ads, et cetera. And there’s obviously a whole semi-complicated process for how you go about getting your music in those opportunities and on those platforms.” She talks more about that process and how a newcomer to sync might get started. “You proactively write music for these opportunities,” she tells us, “based on a set of criteria that generally work, and then you submit that music to, in the industry, they’re called music licensing agencies, and then those agencies receive...