We’re joining podcasts around the world in tandem with the 80th United Nations General Assembly, to ask a vital question: where do we find hope in challenging times? We explore how cities are implementing Herman Daly’s revolutionary economic theories.

Featured in this episode:

Karen Daly Junker, Herman and Marcia’s youngest daughter

Terri Daly Stewart, Herman and Marcia’s eldest daughter

Denis Daly Heyck, Herman’s sister

David Batker, Ecological economist

Katherine Trebeck, Political economist

Leonora Grcheva, Cities & Regions Lead at DEAL

Kate Raworth, Co-founder of DEAL

Katy Shields, Regenerative Economist

Cindy Acab, Waste to Resources Network Senior Manager at C40

Cllr. Susan Aitken, Leader of Glasgow City Council

Takehiko Nagumo, Director of Smart Cities Institute Japan

Joshua Farley, Ecological Economist

Gaya Herrington, Ecological economist

Angelos Varvarousis, Research Fellow at UAB

Tim Jackson, Ecological economist

Clóvis Cavalcanti, Ecological economist

John Redwood, Former employee of the World Bank

Jon Sward, Environment Project Manager at the Bretton Woods Project

Peter May, Ecological economist

Brian Czech, Executive Director of CASSE

Thank you to the Daly family for their generous support in sharing Herman’s story.

Thank you also to our series consultants and fact checkers, Peter Harnik, Rob Dietz, and Peter Victor, who also graciously supplied the interview tape with Herman Daly, recorded in 2022.

If you want to learn more about the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, please visit our website: https://jccpe.utpjournals.press/

Cities 1.5 is produced by the University of Toronto Press and Cities 1.5 is supported by C40 Cities and the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. You can sign up to the Centre newsletter here. https://thecentre.substack.com/

Cities 1.5 is hosted by David Miller, Managing Director of the C40 Centre and author of the book Solved. It's written and produced by Peggy Whitfield and Jess Schmidt: https://jessdoespodcasting.com/

Our executive producer is Chiara Morfeo.

Edited by Morgane Chambrin: https://www.morganechambrin.com/

Cities 1.5 music is by Lorna Gilfedder: https://origamipodcastservices.com/

We follow Herman Daly into one of the last places you’d expect to find a rebel economist: the World Bank. We will hear how the academic work of Herman’s sister, Denis Daly Heyck, impacted on his worldview. We’ll also see how this fused with Herman’s own experiences teaching in Brazil, and the building of pan-American ecological and human rights movements to fuel him to advocate for policy and philosophical changes at the Bank - culminating in his famous farewell speech.

Featured in this episode:

Karen Daly Junker & Terri Daly Stewart, Herman and Marcia’s daughters

Jon Sward, Environment Project Manager at the Bretton Woods Project

Denis Daly Heyck (Deni), Professor Emeritus of Spanish language & literature

David Batker, Ecological economist

John Redwood, Former World Bank employee

Robert Costanza, Ecological economist

Clóvis Cavalcanti, Ecological economist

Peter May, Ecological economist

Kate Raworth, DEAL co-founder

Joshua Farley, Ecological economist

Xiye Bastida, Climate justice activist

Thank you to the Daly family for their generous support in sharing Herman’s story.

Thanks also to: C40's Barbara Barros for voicing Marcia Daly’s email in this episode; Denis Daly Heyck for providing the images for our episode art; and to Nate Hagens and the team behind The Great Simplification podcast for granting us permission to use a clip from their show.

Thank you also to our series consultants and fact checkers, Peter Harnik, Rob Dietz, and Peter Victor, who also graciously supplied the interview tape with Herman Daly, recorded in 2022.

Media citations by order of appearance:

(That'll Work) (Live), Chuck Brown

The Heritage Foundation - “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!”

The Great Simplification: “Toward an Ecological Economics”

If you want to learn more about the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, please visit our website: https://jccpe.utpjournals.press/

Cities 1.5 is produced by the University of Toronto Press and Cities 1.5 is supported by C40 Cities and the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. You can sign up to the Centre newsletter here. https://thecentre.substack.com/

Cities 1.5 is hosted by David Miller, Managing Director of the C40 Centre and author of the book Solved. It's written and produced by Peggy Whitfield and Jess Schmidt: https://jessdoespodcasting.com/

Our executive producer is Chiara Morfeo.

Edited by Morgane Chambrin: https://www.morganechambrin.com/

Cities 1.5 music is by Lorna Gilfedder: https://origamipodcastservices.com/

We rejoin Herman Daly in the late 1970s - a tumultuous time for our renegade economist. Partnering with theologian John Cobb Jr., Daly began to rebuild economics from the ground up, reframing it around values, community, and the planet that sustains us.

Woven through this intellectual journey are stories of faith, family, and friendship that helped Daly persevere. We hear how he sparked a global community of scholars and inspired whole new movements, ranging from wellbeing and regenerative economics to the circular economy and doughnut economics.

Featured in this episode:

Gaya Herrington, Wellbeing economist & thought leader

Jennie King, Senior Fellow at ISD

Peter Victor, Ecological economist & author of Herman Daly’s Economics for a Full World

Sandrine Dixson-Declève, Global Ambassador for The Club of Rome

Robert Costanza, Ecological economist

Terri Daly Stewart, Senior Occupational Therapist, and Herman and Marcia’s eldest daughter

Karen Daly Junker, Senior Manager of Provenance Research at the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts, and Herman and Marcia’s youngest daughter

Brian Czech, Executive Director of CASSE

Rob Dietz, Program Director at the Post-Carbon Institute and co-host of Crazy Town

Colvis Cavalcanti, Ecological economist

Katy Shields, Regenerative economist, and co-creator/host of Tipping Point

Katherine Trebeck, Political economist

Thank you to the Daly family for their generous support in sharing Herman’s story, and to Barbara Barros, C40 Global Head of Adaptation Finance, for voicing Marcia Daly’s email in this episode.

Thank you also to our series consultants and fact checkers, Peter Harnik, Rob Dietz, and Peter Victor, who also graciously supplied the interview tape with Herman Daly, recorded in 2022.

Visit the Cities 1.5 podcast page on UTP’s website for the media citations used in this episode.

If you want to learn more about the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, please visit our website: https://jccpe.utpjournals.press/

Cities 1.5 is produced by the University of Toronto Press and Cities 1.5 is supported by C40 Cities and the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. You can sign up to the Centre newsletter here. https://thecentre.substack.com/

Cities 1.5 is hosted by David Miller, Managing Director of the C40 Centre and author of the book Solved. It's written and produced by Peggy Whitfield and Jess Schmidt: https://jessdoespodcasting.com/

Our executive producer is Chiara Morfeo.

Edited by Morgane Chambrin: https://www.morganechambrin.com/

Cities 1.5 music is by Lorna Gilfedder: https://origamipodcastservices.com/

We follow Herman from the lecture halls of Louisiana to the forests of Brazil – and through a period of global upheaval and personal transformation. Herman was profoundly shaped by the realities of inequality and ecological fragility in the Global South. These experiences helped crystallize his vision of a steady-state economy; one that operates within the planet’s ecological limits and prioritizes human wellbeing and ecological boundaries over endless growth.

With reflections from his family and followers, this episode captures the moment Daly’s thinking moved from quiet resistance to creating economic theories that would go on to have a truly global influence.

Featured in this episode:

Colvis Cavalcanti, ecological economist

Brian Czech, Author of Shoveling Fuel for a Runaway Train and executive director of the Center for the Advancement of the Steady State Economy

Rob Dietz, Program Director at the Post-Carbon Institute, co-author of Enough is Enough, and co-host of Crazy Town

Terri Daly Stewart, Senior Occupational Therapist and Herman and Marcia's eldest daughter

Karen Daly Junker, Senior Manager of Provenance Research at the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts and Herman and Marcia’s youngest daughter

Denis Lynn Daly Heyck (Deni), Professor Emeritus of Spanish language and literature and Herman's sister

Katy Shields, Regenerative economist and co-creator/host of Tipping Point

Peter Victor, Professor Emeritus of ecological economics & author of Herman Daly’s Economics for a Full World

Kate Raworth, Author of Doughnut Economics and co-founder of the Doughnut Economics Action Lab

Thank you to the Daly family for their generous support in sharing Herman’s story.

Thank you also to our series consultants and fact checkers, Peter Harnik, Rob Dietz, and Peter Victor, who also graciously supplied the interview tape with Herman Daly, recorded in 2022.

Visit the Cities 1.5 podcast page on UTP’s website for the media citations used in this episode.

If you want to learn more about the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, please visit our website: https://jccpe.utpjournals.press/

Cities 1.5 is produced by the University of Toronto Press and Cities 1.5 is supported by C40 Cities and the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. You can sign up to the Centre newsletter here. https://thecentre.substack.com/

Cities 1.5 is hosted by David Miller, Managing Director of the C40 Centre and author of the book Solved. It's written and produced by Peggy Whitfield and Jess Schmidt: https://jessdoespodcasting.com/

Our executive producer is Chiara Morfeo.

Edited by Morgane Chambrin: https://www.morganechambrin.com/

Cities 1.5 music is by Lorna Gilfedder: https://origamipodcastservices.com/

Herman Daly was a founding father of ecological economics: more than half a century ago, he warned that the pursuit of endless economic growth was driving ecological collapse and harming society, as well as harming society - and came up with a plan to unbreak our economy.

Dismissed by mainstream economists, pushed out of the World Bank, and even targeted by menacing, anonymous threats, Daly paid a high price for challenging our unsustainable global system. But now, as climate breakdown accelerates and the failures of neoliberalism become increasingly apparent, his ideas are more relevant - and more vital - than ever. Now is the time for his theories and his legacy to get the attention they deserve.

In the opening episode, we hear from the person who knew his story best: himself. Featuring never-heard-before interviews with Herman, alongside reflections from a whole host of experts, scholars and collaborators. We trace his childhood battle with polio, his whirlwind romance with his wife, Marcia and the moment Herman discovered the first piece of the puzzle in solving the intertwined economic, societal and climate crises: the concept of uneconomic growth.

Featured in this episode:

Peter Victor, Professor emeritus of ecological economics and author of Herman Daly’s Economics for a Full World

Gaya Herrington, Wellbeing economist & thought leader

Joshua Farley, Professor of ecological economics

Katherine Trebeck, Political Economist & writer

Denis (Deni) Lynn Daly Heyck, Professor Emeritus of Spanish Language and Literature and Herman’s sister

Terri Daly Stewart, Senior Occupational Therapist, and Herman and Marcia’s elder daughter

Karen Daly Junker, Senior Manager of Provenance Research at the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts, and Herman and Marcia’s younger daughter

Thank you to the Daly family for their generous support in sharing Herman’s story, and to Barbara Barros for voicing Marcia Daly’s email in this episode. Thank you also to our series consultants, Peter Harnik, Rob Dietz, and Peter Victor, who also graciously supplied the interview tape with Herman Daly, recorded in 2022.

If you want to learn more about the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, please visit our website: https://jccpe.utpjournals.press/

Cities 1.5 is produced by the University of Toronto Press and Cities 1.5 is supported by C40 Cities and the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. You can sign up to the Centre newsletter here. https://thecentre.substack.com/

Cities 1.5 is hosted by David Miller, Managing Director of the C40 Centre and author of the book Solved. It's written and produced by Peggy Whitfield and Jess Schmidt: https://jessdoespodcasting.com/

Our executive producer is Chiara Morfeo.

Edited by Morgane Chambrin: https://www.morganechambrin.com/

Cities 1.5 music is by Lorna Gilfedder: https://origamipodcastservices.com/

Is it time to retire the concept of growth as the sole measure of prosperity? This summer, join host David Miller for a special miniseries dedicated to Herman Daly, an economist who transformed how we think about growth. Featuring never heard before interviews with Daly himself alongside experts, scholars, and Herman’s nearest and dearest, this is a story you won’t want to miss!

The first episode of Going Steady with Herman Daly debuts on August 19th, 2025. We can’t wait for you to hear it!

If you want to learn more about the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, please visit our website: https://jccpe.utpjournals.press/

Cities 1.5 is produced by the University of Toronto Press and Cities 1.5 is supported by C40 Cities and the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. You can sign up to the Centre newsletter here. https://thecentre.substack.com/

Cities 1.5 is hosted by David Miller, Managing Director of the C40 Centre and author of the book Solved. It's written and produced by Peggy Whitfield and Jess Schmidt: https://jessdoespodcasting.com/

Our executive producer is Chiara Morfeo.

Edited by Morgane Chambrin: https://www.morganechambrin.com/

Cities 1.5 music is by Lorna Gilfedder: https://origamipodcastservices.com/

Herman Daly would have turned 87 years old on July 21st, 2025. While he is no longer with us, his ideas have lived on - shaping an economic future that we haven’t yet achieved, but is steadily becoming the most probable way forward in the face of rising temperatures, extreme weather events, and ecological and economic decimation.

But who exactly was Herman Daly? Why was his work scorned by the World Bank? And how can his plan for world economics save the planet?

Featuring economists Gaya Herrington, Tim Jackson, Kate Raworth, along with other experts, scholars, and Herman's nearest and dearest, join host David Miller for a special limited series exploring the life of Herman Daly, the economist who transformed the thinking of some of the leading economic and climate thinkers of our times. Going Steady premieres this August - check back on this feed for updates!

If you want to learn more about the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, please visit our website: https://jccpe.utpjournals.press/

Cities 1.5 is produced by the University of Toronto Press and Cities 1.5 is supported by C40 Cities and the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. You can sign up to the Centre newsletter here. https://thecentre.substack.com/

Cities 1.5 is hosted by David Miller, Managing Director of the C40 Centre and author of the book Solved. It's written and produced by Peggy Whitfield and Jess Schmidt: https://jessdoespodcasting.com/

Our executive producer is Chiara Morfeo.

Edited by Morgane Chambrin: https://www.morganechambrin.com/

Cities 1.5 music is by Lorna Gilfedder: https://origamipodcastservices.com/

For hundreds of years, people have been pondering the power of information. In this past season of Cities 1.5, we’ve seen examples of cities from around the world who are using data and the lived experiences of their inhabitants to create policies that support healthier lives for people and planet: from Freetown, Sierra Leone, to Tokyo, Japan, to Princeton, Canada. But while history - and our own conversations on this podcast - prove that knowledge is powerful…it isn’t always easy to come by. For the final episode of Cities 1.5 season 5, David meets two knowledge and dissemination specialists who speak with him about the importance of data and information for climate action and what other ingredients are key to effective communications about global heating.

Featured guests:

Katie Walsh, Head of Climate Finance for Cities, States, and Regions at CDP

Andrea Learned, climate influence catalyst and strategist

Links:

Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes

Cities are responsible for over 70% of global greenhouse gas emissions - World Bank

Global Covenant of Mayors

Earth Positive Action - CDP

Cities Climate Finance Leadership Alliance Forum

Global Snapshot Report 2024 - CDP

Paris Climate Agreement

CHAMP - C40

Andrea Learned’s Green Biz article on the five Ls of Twitter leadership

Living Change podcast

Bike Talk podcast

Bowinn MA, Canadian politician elected to the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia in 2017

Album: Joy as an act of resistance

Sus

If you want to learn more about the Journal of City Climate Policy and Economy, please visit our website: https://jccpe.utpjournals.press/

Cities 1.5 is produced by the University of Toronto Press and Cities 1.5 is supported by C40 Cities and the C40 Centre for City Climate Policy and Economy. You can sign up to the Centre newsletter here. https://thecentre.substack.com/

Cities 1.5 is hosted by David Miller, Managing Director of the C40 Centre and author of the book Solved. It's written and produced by Peggy Whitfield and Jess Schmidt: https://jessdoespodcasting.com/

Our executive producer is Chiara Morfeo.

Edited by Morgane Chambrin: https://www.morganechambrin.com/

Cities 1.5 music is by Lorna Gilfedder: https://origamipodcastservices.com/