Four and a half years after Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Putin hasn’t won. But Russia hasn’t been isolated either.

In this episode of Disorder latest, Jason is joined by Russia expert Hanna Notte, author of We Shall Outlast Them: Putin’s Global Campaign to Defeat the West, to explore how the Ukraine war has become the organising principle of Russian foreign policy — and a much wider struggle over global order.

How has Moscow cultivated relationships with China, India, Iran and the Global South? Does Russia actively benefit from global Disorder? And does Putin really need to keep fighting to preserve his regime — or does he continue simply because he believes Russia can still outlast Ukraine and its Western supporters?

Hanna also draws on her years living in and travelling through Russia to unpack stoikost — endurance and resilience — and the Russian narratives of suffering, self-reliance and victimhood.

As they Order the Disorder, they look at what would actually prove Putin’s wager wrong? Hanna argues that Europe needs above all to remain steady: keep Ukraine economically and militarily viable, strengthen its air defences, squeeze Russia’s oil revenues and shadow fleet, and demonstrate that Moscow cannot simply wait for Western resolve to collapse.

For Mega Orderers, hear Jason and Hanna get much more granular about where the war stands right now.

Join the Mega Orderers Club for the full bonus:

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SHOW NOTES

Buy Hanna Notte’s We Shall Outlast Them: Putin’s Global Campaign to Defeat the West in the UK:

https://www.hatchards.co.uk/book/we-shall-outlast-them/hanna-notte/9781324117018

Hanna Notte discusses We Shall Outlast Them on the Kennan Institute’s The Long View — Putin’s Campaign to Defeat the West:

https://www.kennaninstitute.org/past-events

Mark Galeotti’s In Moscow’s Shadows:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/in-moscows-shadows/id1510124746

Mark Galeotti on Hidden Forces — The West’s Forgotten War and the New Russia:

https://hiddenforces.io/podcasts/the-wests-forgotten-war-and-the-new-russia-mark-galeotti/

Disorder Ep. 196 with Jamison Firestone — Rule of Lies: The Origin Story of Putin’s Russia:

https://podcasts.apple.com/id/podcast/ep-196-rule-of-lies-the-origin-story-of/id1706818264?i=1000777642161

Disorder with Marcel Dirsus — Dictators’ Disordering Quest for Internal Security:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep67-dictators-disordering-quest-for-internal-security/id1706818264?i=1000669774299

Disorder:

https://disordershow.com/

Mega Orderers Club:

https://disordershow.com/club

It’s our favourite time of the month: listener questions time! Jason and Jane tackle migration and assimilation, the rise of the AfD and neo-populism, and what Keir Starmer’s legacy tells us about the failure of technocratic politics to offer a compelling vision of the future.

Then: is AI going to destroy humanity — or merely our jobs and our sanity? Could agentic AI military systems create their own escalatory feedback loops? And why might we need a kind of NATO for AI?

Finally, we turn to Yemen, the Houthis and the Red Sea, before asking what the Fed’s surprise interest-rate hike tells us about the importance of independent institutions.

Mega Orderers Bonus: Is Unregulated Capitalism Hacking Our Evolution?: Pls join the Mega Orderers Club for this unmissable treatment of topics like… Why does AI flatter us? And what do sycophantic chatbots, sugar, porn, gambling and neo-populist strongmen have in common? Jason and Jane explore evolutionary mismatch and ask whether we need a GLP-1 for our addiction to Disorder.

Join the Mega Orderers Club: https://www.disordershow.com/club

Producer: George McDonagh

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SHOWNOTES LINKS

George McDonagh’s Black Box: The Chatbots series for The Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/audio/2026/sep/03/black-box-the-chatbots-spirals-ai-psychosis-podcast

The Guardian on AI sycophancy:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jun/02/ai-sycophancy-risk-to-society-grasp-reality

The Guardian on the Fed raising US interest rates:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/sep/16/us-federal-reserve-votes-hike-rates

The Guardian on Yemen, the Houthis and the wider regional conflict:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/sep/10/violence-erupts-in-yemen-again-why-it-matters-globally-and-how-it-is-linked-to-the-us-iran-war

The Guardian on the latest anti-Houthi military developments:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/sep/18/yemen-anti-houthi-forces-inquest-military-collapse

Twenty-five years after 9/11, did America respond to an attack on the Western Order by inadvertently helping to disorder that Order itself?

Jason is joined by Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Ben Hodges, former Commanding General of U.S. Army Europe, to look back at 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan and the collapse of NATO allies trust in the USA—and forward to how Ukraine can win and the defence of Europe. Hodges argues that military power is only useful when attached to a clear strategic objective and Congressional and popular buy-in: a lesson America repeatedly forgot after 9/11.

They then turn to Ukraine: drones, long-range strikes, manpower, democratic legitimacy and Europe's continuing failure to develop sufficient air and missile defence. In the Ordering the Disorder section, General Hodges argues that Europe should stop thinking about merely improving Ukraine's negotiating position and instead help it defeat Russia—while rebuilding the alliances and institutions that once magnified American power.

Join the Mega Orderers Club at disordershow.com/club to get Jason's response to the interview, including his own reflections on 9/11 and whether power without clear objectives, functioning alliances and an idea of the Order it is seeking to create can itself become an engine of Disorder.

SHOWNOTES LINKS

Democrats v Dictators with Ben Hodges on his personal background:

https://youtu.be/9eOKx6iVTx8?is=PJsO4AA9lfIk_5ru

Ben Hodges — Association of the United States Army:

https://www.ausa.org/people/ben-hodges

NATO — Collective Defence and Article 5:

https://www.nato.int/en/what-we-do/introduction-to-nato/collective-defence-and-article-5

Disorder — NATO: A Model for Ordering the Disorder? with Jamie Shea, Kori Schake, Timothy Garton Ash and Charles Kupchan:

https://podfollow.com/disorder/episode/484e21562b7dcd1a1a1f570a09343fd68bf6e732/view

Join the Mega Orderers Club:

https://disordershow.com/club