I went to a Catholic all-boys high school run by the Christian Brothers, a teaching order founded by St. John the Baptist De La Salle. I will give them credit for giving me great preparation for future academic success, and even maybe this podcast. So at the foundation of Experience by Design are the Christian Brothers.

But that wasn’t my first brush with Catholicism. I did a fair number of the sacraments growing up and into adulthood, a process which included learning about the tenets and history of such central figures like Jesus. One of the things I recall learning about was the Sermon on the Mount and the Beatitudes. I also preferred the Beatitudes to things like the Ten Commandments. In a way the Commandments can read like the rules of a HOA of all the things you can’t do. It is important to remember things like “Thou shall not kill” and not to “covet thy neighbor’s wife.” But I liked the Beatitudes because they gave props to people already doing good things.

A really good one is “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.”

Regardless of your religious or spiritual beliefs, I think we can all get behind that, especially at a time when there is so much conflict. The Armed Conflict Location and Event Data global monitor organization states, “Recent levels of violence have been unprecedentedly high, with several ‘record-breaking’ months in the past year.” But this just doesn't mean armed conflict on the international stage. Things are tense all over with all kinds of conflict everyday.

Which is why we have Josh Gordon as a guest on Experience by Design. I’ve known Josh for a long time, but primarily in the capacity of a fellow runner and training partner. Josh also is a faculty member at the University of Oregon, a leader in the area of sports mediation, and the founder of the Sports Conflict Institute. In his career, Josh has done work with FIFA, Major League Baseball, Court of Arbitration for Sport, and others.

We talk about fairness and equity in sports, and why emphasizing the opportunities provided by sports are meaningful and should not be derailed. We explore how we can build inclusive cultures through sports. He takes us into his work at the collegiate level, and how setting expectations ahead of time can produce greater satisfaction and happiness with ensuing experiences. We also talk about the difference between ‘distress’ and ‘eustress’, and why a little bit of friction can be essential to growth.

Finally we explore how we can create equitable organizational cultures, and why the perception of fairness can be more important that the presence of outcome.

Sports Conflict Institute: https://sportsconflict.org

Josh Gordon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshuagordon

Sports Conflict Institute TV: https://sportsconflict.org/sci-tv/

My first jobs were in restaurants washing dishes and busing tables. I would go on to do other jobs in restaurants, including cooking, waiting on tables, hosting on occasion. I think working in restaurants is a great first job because it teaches you to deal with people, and work in collaboration with different functions. So no matter what you do in a restaurant, it is a great experience to prepare for life.

While I for sure was ‘cooking,’ I wouldn’t call myself a “cook.” And definitely wouldn’t consider myself being a “chef.” I was just a person following instructions and performing it in a way that was consistent with expectations. I was told how to prepare something, and I followed those instructions. I know that not everyone can accomplish that, but I don’t consider it a great mark of distinction.

Being able to successfully combine ingredients in a way that is proscribed is another one of those life lessons that can be applied in a lot of areas. Including organizational leadership.

Organizations after all are just assemblies of ingredients. There are proscribed ways of putting these organizational ingredients together. Accountants go in the accounting department. Sales people in sales. Marketers in marketing. Etc. And these people sit in the same areas as each other, and they do the work that is related to their areas. And on it goes. That doesn’t take a lot of visionary ability. It typically is the way it goes in all organizations.

Now if you think of the ingredients right now in your kitchen, there are the staples that you typically rely on and use. You are comfortable with them and know how to deploy them. There are also those things that are seldom used, and you even forget you have. I’m thinking here of the spices I have that I forgot I have and never get included. There also is the stuff in the shelves and freezer that got buried, or maybe I got to use once. So lots of ingredients with no clear idea of what to do with them. There used to be a show with Chef Alton Brown where he would just go into someone’s house and make a meal with what was there. That’s talent.

On today’s episode, we welcome someone who knows about putting things together, something about how leaders use ingredients, and something about food. Dr. James Shin got his PhD from Penn State in Industrial Engineering, writing a dissertation that looks at (in part) simplicity versus complexity in the design process. Part of what he learned is that if we minimize the problems from the start, they can become more manageable, allowing us to make more progress.

Rather than go the academic route, he went into industry given his interest in applying knowledge to practical problems. Working in a global organization, he also learned how approaches used by different cultures may work in that particular culture, but may not work as well in other cultures and contexts. Another thing he learned from his global work is that middle management is typically overstressed and underappreciated no matter where in the world they are located.

We talk about his new book “The Leader’s Soul: 52 Reflections for Unlocking Your Inner Leader.” In it, he looks at his own upbringing in South Korea, moving to the US as part of his PhD completion, his journey through corporate America, and his return to Asia in capacities that included speaking at universities.

We also talk about his company Blue Koi, and how the koi fish symbolizes growth. However, as he shares, the best kind of sustainable growth occurs not necessarily through focusing on rapid achievement, but through pacing ourselves in our efforts and life. He also reflects on the importance of nuance, and how he had to break from the black and white thinking that can be more prominent in engineering and how humans need to be factored into design.

And there was some conversation about preparing food, and the importance of not just using the right ingredients, but using the ingredients you have in creative ways.

Blue Koi: https://www.bluekoiglobal.com/

James Shin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-j-shin/

"The Leader's Soul": https://www.amazon.com/Leaders-Soul-James-Shin/dp/1963701534

One bit of news that caught my attention was the declining trust that the American public has in higher education over the last decade. In good news, Gallup found that trust did increase from 2024 to 2025. However, it is still markedly down from 2015. Not surprisingly, those levels of trust differ by political affiliation, as most things seem to different by political affiliation nowadays.

Another study by Pew states that young adults are increasingly questioning the value of a four-year college degree, especially when looking at the cost of it. This is coupled with smaller four-year liberal arts institutions because of declining enrollment. There are a number of factors for this, but a main one is whether such an education adequately prepares one for a successful future, or whether it is really necessary at all.

But if not higher education, then what? Where are 18 year olds supposed to go after they graduate high school?

It is true that skilled tradespeople are in demand and can lead to a career. In fact, there is an increase in the number of people entering trade school and vocational programs. That for sure is great news.

Another pathway for young adults is joining the military. Those numbers have been increasing as well, reversing a long-term trend of declining enlistments. However, less than 1% of Americans are on active duty. The current overall veteran population is only 7.4%. The larger question still remains of whether being in the military can adequately prepare a person for life and a career after serving?

My guest today on Experience by Design podcast thinks so. Lee Pepper has served in the military, and he also has worked in business. He sees a lot of connections between the two, which he wrote in his book “Never Outmatched: Military Strategies to Lead, Innovate, and Win in the Modern Marketing Battlefield,” which I will say I have read and is pretty great.

We talk about how innovation doesn’t mean throwing everything out, but new applications in current environments given emergent tools. He describes how he seeks to mentor soldiers who are struggling after the military to help them apply what they learned in the service to life outside of it. He translates how military speak can be translated into corporate speak to help increase those connections.

Lee also talks about how these lessons can be applicable to everyone looking to improve innovation, strategy, and leadership. He also relates his marketing work for a recovery and treatment facility, and what he learned from that environment and how lifetime relationships can help for long-term recovery.

Finally, he shares his experience about being a docent in an art museum, and how his wife’s art work relates to his own creativity, risk taking, and innovative inspiration.

Lee Pepper LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leepepper/

Never Outmatch Book: https://www.neveroutmatched.com/