In part two of their series on apprenticeships, Jeff talks with Claire Fiddian-Green, president and CEO of the Richard M. Fairbanks Foundation, about Indiana’s ambitious efforts to adapt lessons from Switzerland’s gold-standard model. They explore how Indiana is transforming high school graduation requirements, building industry-led talent associations, and designing scalable pathways that center real-world work experience. The conversation covers the challenges of shifting culture, coordinating stakeholders, and ensuring permeability between career and college tracks—all with the goal of making apprenticeships a respected and rigorous route to success after high school. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group and the Gates Foundation.

“No Time to Lose: How to Build a World-Class Education System State by State,” - The National Council of State Legislatures

Apprentice Nation: How the "Earn and Learn" Alternative to Higher Education Will Create a Stronger and Fairer America, - Ryan Craig

“Career and Technical Education for All,” - Daniel Curtis and Michael B. Horn

0:00 - Intro
3:32 - Focusing Indiana on CTE
5:00 - Applying Lessons Learned from Swiss Apprenticeship in Indiana
8:05 - Building an Apprenticeship System at Scale
10:58 - Adjusting Graduation Requirements
13:52 - The Keys to Successful Stakeholder Collaboration in Indiana
15:10 - Centering Permeability
19:05 - States in the Lead on Apprenticeship
21:56 - Putting Employers in the Driver’s Seat
26:30 - Carving Out Apprenticeship Pathways in High Schools
31:30 - Bringing it Back to the Why

Jeff and Michael are joined by Mushtaq Gunja, Executive Director of the Carnegie Classification Systems and Senior Vice President at ACE, to unpack the sweeping changes to the Carnegie Classifications. They explore how the new system aims to better group institutions, highlight student access and earnings, and shift incentives across funding, accountability, and rankings. The conversation dives into the implications for colleges chasing R1 status, the normative power of classifications, and whether these changes will meaningfully alter institutional behavior or simply create a new hierarchy. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group and the Gates Foundation.

2025 Institutional Classifications, Carnegie Classifications of Institutions of Higher Education

2025 Research Activity Designations, Carnegie Classifications of Institutions of Higher Education

0:00 - Intro
05:50 - The Changing Higher Ed Landscape
08:06 - The Impact of the New Classifications
10:42 - Anticipating the Normative Effects
16:55 - New Funding Criteria
18:13 - Shifting to a Focus on Outcomes
21:17 - Measuring Access and Earnings
24:53 - Encouraging Good Use of the New Classifications
34:24 - Considering the Impact on Research Dollars
40:28 - Institutional Response to Access and Earnings Designations
46:30 - What This Means for Rankings

As colleges navigate increasing financial pressure, many struggle to balance mission with sustainability. In this episode, Jeff and Michael welcome Rick Staisloff, founder of rpk GROUP, for a crash course in how college budgets really work. From centralized vs. decentralized models to the challenges of tuition discounting, Rick breaks down the major drivers of revenue and expense in higher ed. He also highlights why better business intelligence, clearer accountability, and a shift toward ROI thinking are essential for financial sustainability. Whether you're a board member or just curious, this episode offers practical insight into what’s working—and what’s not—in college budgeting. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group and the Gates Foundation.

Chapters

0:00 - Intro

03:45 - How colleges put together their budgets

9:05 - Implementation challenges and best practices

15:04 - Non-tuition revenue sources

26:21 - Cost drivers

29:41 - Solving the “Financial Bucket Problem”

35:41 - Deferred maintenance

38:11 - Shifting to an ROI mindset

41:04 - The levers to pull

43:14 - On the margins

46:44 - College cash sources

49:03 - Our most promising strategies

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The U.S. has a lot to learn when it comes to systematizing apprenticeship. Thankfully, there are successful international models, like Switzerland’s, that we can study. Katie Caves, the Director at Switzerland’s Center on the Economics and Management of Education and Training Systems, joins the podcast to discuss the Swiss model and what can be gleaned from it. They discuss its permeability between academic and vocational tracks, proving its value to employers, the prestige of Swiss apprenticeships, and the principles that hold across borders. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group.

Return on investment of apprenticeship systems for enterprises: Evidence from cost-benefit analyses
by Samuel Muehlemann & Stefan C Wolter

0:00 - Intro

3:35 - Swiss Apprenticeship 101

6:56 - Path Selection and Funding

13:46 - The Status of Apprenticeship in Switzerland

18:58 - Borrowing Across Borders

25:15 - The ROI to Employers

29:47 - Evaluating Indiana’s Apprenticeship Model

33:45 - Imbuing Prestige in American Apprenticeship

38:49 - Striking the Balance

43:01 - The Influence of Accountability

AI is evolving at a rapid rate, and its implications for higher ed are changing in lock step. So, Michael and Jeff dove back into the topic at the Google Public Sector GenAI Live & Labs Conference with a panel of experts: Ann Krischner of CUNY and ASU, Pace University’s Marvin Krislov, and Google’s Chris Hein. They discussed the necessity of an institutional AI strategy, the tech’s implications for the future of work, and why university partnerships will be essential to equity in the age of AI. This episode is made with support from Google.

0:00 - Intro

1:40 - Campus-Wide AI Strategy

6:02 - Skills in the Age of AI

9:52 - AI Policy and Faculty Training

11:49 - The Dislocation of Entry Level Jobs

15:33 - Teaching AI

18:39 - Mounting the Liberal Arts Comeback

21:25 - The Future of Academic Research

24:37 - Building Access through Partnership

31:12 - Questionable Assumptions

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Mergers aren’t easy. They demand careful analysis, difficult decisions, and tricky stakeholder management. But they are becoming increasingly necessary as dropping enrollments make going it alone less viable for more and more institutions. So, Michael and Jeff sat down with the presidents of two colleges in Ohio that are in the process of merging and the consultant that helped guide them through it to learn more about how to do so successfully. They discuss how to find the right partner, navigate federal approval processes, and manage the emotional elements. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group and The Gates Foundation.

Strategic Mergers in Higher Education by Ricardo Azziz et al.

0:00 - Introduction

01:32 - Future U’s Coverage of M&A

03:26 - A Merger in Northwest Ohio

04:44 - Pursuing a Partnership

08:29 - Finding the Right Fit

10:45 - The Challenging Federal Approval Process

16:21 - Managing Stakeholder Communications

22:09 - Lessons Learned

27:04 - The Leadership Characteristics Required

30:46 - The Timeline of Mergers

39:03 - Managing the Emotional Element

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This year, thousands of students will be accepted to colleges without ever submitting a formal application. That’s because more and more schools are automatically accepting students who meet preset performance thresholds through direct admissions programs. To learn more about this growing trend, Michael and Jeff welcome Luke Skurman who is CEO of Niche.com, one of the nation’s largest direct admissions platforms. They discuss the benefits and risks of this innovation and dig into how it changes the dynamics between schools and students. Michael and Jeff then envision the variety of changes required in the college admissions process. This episode is made with support from Ascendium Education Group, the Gates Foundation, and the American College of Education.

0:00 Intro
02:26 - The Backstory on Direct Admissions
06:35 - How Niche Direct Admissions Works
09:09 - The Benefit to Students and Institutions
11:29 - Another Application Count Booster?
14:25 - Obstacle or Litmus Test?
15:56 - Changing Dynamics
19:40 - The Competitive Landscape
20:41 - What’s Next?
25:38 - The Three Parts of Admissions
30:23 - Weighing the Pros and Cons of Direct Admissions
36:26 - Reimagining the College Admissions Process

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Women have outnumbered men on college campuses for decades, but the divergence in postsecondary success has widened in recent years, and it is both a cause and symptom of the struggles of the modern man. Richard Reeves, author of Of Boys and Men joins the podcast to discuss the drivers of these challenges, promising interventions, and whether we should care about the plight of men in a world where they continue to wield power. This episode is made with support from the Gates Foundation, Ascendium Education Group, and The American College of Education.

Of Boys and Men:Why the Modern Male Is Struggling, Why It Matters, and What To Do About It
by Richard Reeves

https://www.menincollege.com

American Institute for Boys and Men

00:00 - Intro
04:15 - Where We Are (and Aren't) Seeing the Gender Divide
05:56 - Designing College with The Modern Young Man in Mind
12:28 - Drivers of the Higher Ed Gender Divide
16:30 - The Effects of the Pandemic
19:41 - The Larger Significance of the Problem
26:50 - Opting Out of Adulting
31:52 - Masculinity and Majors
34:22 - K12 Solutions: Nobody's Fault, Everyone's Responsibility
37:32 - What Higher Ed Can Do
41:47 - International Parallels
44:38 - Rebalancing Education Systems
49:06 - Zero-Sum Game or Growing the Pie?