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Simon reports in from Sardegna before Lee and he veer off into talking about what draws us to snake oil.

Things covered: Getting the sound right while recording in a 'cathedral', flight delay, the mundanity of owning a place, Nodi networking function in Alghero, bumping back into Italian, experiences that are both concrete and abstract, dealing with uncertainty, meeting a life-coach, snake-oil, "l'aria fritta" (fried air), what draws us to people selling fried air, having one's buttons pushed over and over again, Sardegna drawing in a dreamcatcher vibe, homemade brick oven and making pizze, primal human experiences, cranio-sacral massages, gong showers (sound baths), golden showers, people talking (or not) about their kinks, piss play, more prevalent than us vanillas, lacking imagination (or perhaps theory of mind), Portishead, Beth Gibbons (singing Gorecki Symphony 3), how to be introduced into something we didn't use to like (e.g. yoga for Lee), the things we end up doing and believing, jam cocktail (listener feedback), unattributed quote from last week to George Saunders' commencement speech (in the links below).

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Related links (and necessary corrections):

• Beth Gibbons singing Górecki's Symphony No. 3 (not number 5): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YlGYxCSDJU
• George Saunders' commencement speech at Syracuse: https://genius.com/George-saunders-graduation-speech-at-syracuse-2013-annotated

Get in touch with Lee and Simon at info@midlifing.net.

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Simon and Lee don't talk about Adolescene (yet), spend way too long discussing Reacher (again), before discussing whether we become kinder with age.

Things covered: Lee guesses Adolescence, finishing off the Reacher series (and just how bad it is), reading all the Reacher novels, trying to remember Duffy's name from Reacher, the Yankees and the Redsox, Stephen Tin Tin Duffy, founding member of Duran Duran (Lee reads out a bunch of stuff from wikipedia), not talking about Deliverance, becoming kinder with age (or not), a Rolodex, intransigence, Lee's parents getting kinder to Bob and the first time they met her, becoming more ourselves, being comfortable acknowledging our struggles, forgetting people's names, growing into ourselves, getting kinder to ourselves, watching people die, the sense of being connected and part of the human race, the desire to be happy.

Get in touch with Lee and Simon at info@midlifing.net.

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Simon and Lee talk about the relevance and irrelevance of age as precipitated by a Simple Minds song.

Things covered: Opening a can of beer, being taken out for lunch by a former PhD student, Noble Rot (Lambs Conduit, London), Reacher (the TV show), Anthony Michael Hall (The Breakfast Club), aging and looking aged, Lee and Andrew Child's 'In Too Deep', jumping the shark (again), The Chills, the Dunedin sound, Lee in Portugal again after a heavy pour, Finn and Sophie's visit to Coventry, Simple Minds' 'Don't You Forget About Me', having children versus not having children and the progression of time, not seeing people for a long time, cheque books, very short think pieces on TikTok, Gen X transitioning across so many different media types, Napster, Simon's upcoming visit to Italy, Negroni O'Clock, an empty apartment, a "preventino" or quote for renovation, getting a quote is different from a marriage proposal, Simon going to an online funeral (again) -- the death of his Aunt Adrienne Nolan (RIP).

Get in touch with Lee and Simon at info@midlifing.net.

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Simon almost got hit by a hearse and as a consequence Lee and Simon discuss the nature of stress.

Things covered: Taking risks on a bike, where humans feel stress, noticing being stressed, degrees of stress, the difference between stress and anxiety, Simon not having headaches, migraines, difference limens, Simon has a panic attack during an Italian lesson, shame and disappointment, Jefrey gives Australian and New Zealand cuisine an 8, Lee on a high with the Falmouth Postgraduate conference, Lee wears his home-knitted scarf, Lee's knitting tension is gorgeous, Lee exceeding expectations (more knitting stuff), becoming expert at things, managing self-expectations, Lee's urge to be liked (food related this time), scrapping out a jam jar, cows with names produce more milk, Lee knitting throughout the entire conversation, Lee going to high-level meetings, advertising for knitting, finding strategies for coping, Lee's first week out of Instagram and just how good it is.

Get in touch with Lee and Simon at info@midlifing.net.

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Lee and Simon talk about things that bother them about themselves and learning to live with them.

Things covered: Apple iCloud shared accounts and how shit they are, a ladybird backflip a la Jackie Chan, ladybugs, speaking all Northern, living in Lancaster, Blackpool, depressed British seaside towns, PIGS acronym (Portugal, Italy, Greece, Spain), Bob and Lee's ladybirds experience, finding out what ladybirds taste like, Torch Song Trilogy, the difference between hardware and software, knitting stick count in, Simon getting high on his own (bread) supply, Oliver Burkeman's Meditation for Mortals, learning to live with the the things that bother them, people pleasing, Totnes street folk singer who hates Lee, Lee sounding a bit more unhinged, chaos in the world of Bob and Lee (and singing a Christmas Carol), Bob and Lee teaching with Henry and William (their dogs at the time), performing "like me", pay them bitches no mind, self-absorption, Simon's clunking dogging him until he dies, Antipodeans going overseas to see the world (their big OE), risky humour in Turkey, the line between getting it right and getting it very wrong, squaring ourselves with ourselves, being aspirational, human beings recognising their shapes, saying goodbye.

Get in touch with Lee and Simon at info@midlifing.net.

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Lee and Simon talk about things in life that are abstract and concrete, some things about Lee's knitting, freedom of thought and action, being happy in difficult times.

Things covered: Being homeowners, sliding doors, pocket doors, porta a libero (bifold door), talking about futures (all part of an apartment update), a(nother) knitting update (including the possibility of a knitted onesie), ribbing (more knitting), Lee reaches clickety-clackety on the pearl stitch but is not through the first series yet, counting stitches and losing track, hurt people hurt people, a sin is thought is as bad as a sin in action, freedom of thought and action (Alegre's Freedom to Think), marks made on the body, a bit of chatGPT action, Alan Carr's "Chatty Man", lining the pockets of another tech billionaire, pushback on the term "male privilege", Derridean deconstructions, Lee getting angry at billionaires (again), being happy in difficult times.

Get in touch with Lee and Simon at info@midlifing.net.

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Lee and Simon talk about songs that make them dance (or not in Lee's case).

Things covered: an Oliver Spencer jacket, body size, Simon's nickname "Snogglegrass", having brothers, David Byrne's American Utopia (by Spike Jonze), I Zimbra by David Byrne, songs that make you dance, songs that make you sing, songs that make you cry, Nina Simone's "Don't Smoke in Bed", Sarah Bareilles "Once Upon Another Time", Elbow "Build A Rocket Boys!", searching for pitch, Lee banging his head three times, the feeling of longing for the things we can't do, Cyndi Lauper's "Time After Time", a printer stuck in Depeche Mode (joke), being Depeche Mode fans (or not), Depeche Mode's fanbase, Duran Duran "The Reflex!" lip sync competition in 1986, being popular (or not), having too much fun (and not being shamed), dance like nobody's watching, singing to musicals, Hamilton, Lee's wonky shoulder, Lee's knitting update (a woolen tanktop), apartment owning update, happy endings.

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Correction:

• David Byrne's American Utopia is a Spike Lee film not a Spike Jonze film.

Get in touch with Lee and Simon at info@midlifing.net.

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Lee and Simon have a conversation about moral compromises.

Things covered: knitting update, Simon's management training (difficult conversations), adult egos, being able to express emotions clearly, being compromised (morally) at work, being party to more privileged information, safe spaces, being responsibility for things that are bigger than me, the compromises of undergraduate recruitment, Simon's previous job at (Toe)Roehampton, working at a sausage factory, being a dream killer, different aptitudes, Jimi Hendrix story about not making it, thinking critically, survival at what costs?, selling shit versus helping people, Simon's compromise in supporting PhD dance students, medical update from Simon and his encounters with the National Health Service, (and is back on butter?).

Get in touch with Lee and Simon at info@midlifing.net.

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