In follow-up to some thoughtful considerations from our friend Odessa in response to our first Kinship Lab discussion on the Future of the Side B project, we continue the conversation around a potential covenant that could bind this nascent movement together. Our particular focus is on the dynamics and risks of harm (with and without) defined boundaries.

This is Part 1, so stay tuned for part 2 in September! (We are taking September off from recording.)

One thing we neglected to discuss a little more was a biblical explanation for covenants and how they work in Scripture and for people today. It’s super valuable to understand the way that God builds covenant as he brings us into deeper relationship with him. Anyone have a favorite resource on this? Hop over to Substack to join the conversation!

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This podcast exists from the generous support from our listeners. If you would like to join the New Kin WhatsApp group to connect with us more and help keep all of our content available for free, then please sign up to support with any size regular gift through Substack—ever dollar is really helpful in helping us continue to build this work.

Our friend Hannah is a Brazilian-Canadian Side B Christian. She stopped by to share some reflections on how faith, family, and culture have shaped her understanding of sexuality. Also included: coming out in Latin American and North American church contexts, the value of therapy and Side B community, and the intentional friendships and practices that have sustained Hannah as she seeks a rooted, faithful life. We’re grateful for her wisdom, thoughtfulness, and curiosity.

Note: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” (and X, Y) as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: ⁠#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality⁠

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★ Timestamps

00:00 #86 - Hannah’s Story of Side B Across 3 Countries and Seasons of Life

01:57 Hannah’s background, across the globe

04:36 Identifying queerness in culture(s) of non-curiosity

17:03 How close friendships are/aren’t different for women

21:44 Coming out in a politicized climate, and therapy

27:45 Hannah’s recs on helpful resources

41:39 What does community look like in your future (maybe)?

47:16 Walking with new friends in side A

53:47 Talking queer topics with women in the church

59:41 Brazilian vs. North American progress on faith/sexuality convos

01:02:09 And again: Therapy!

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★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, and support || Email: communionandshalom@gmail.com | Instagram: @newkinship | Substack: @newkinship

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★ Credits || Creators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza, Tyler Parker | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, carlswensonmusic.com | Podcast Manager: Elena F. ★

Shela Chan joins us to discuss her journey to faith and the research that now shapes her work at the intersection of queer theology, ethics, and social science. Drawing on her own story and doctoral research, Shela examines how theology and empirical insights can inform Christian understandings of human flourishing, belonging, and trauma while challenging the ways churches can unintentionally marginalize LGBTQ people.

Note: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: ⁠#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality⁠

★ About Our Guest:

Shela Chan is a Ph.D. student of Theological and Social Ethics at Fordham University in New York. Her background includes mission work in Afro-Eurasia, and she holds a Master of Divinity degree from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. Her academic research focuses on holistic human development and flourishing at the intersection of sexuality and attachment theory. You can find her on Instagram @shechannnnn.

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★ Timestamps

(00:00) #85 - Shela Chan: Reflections on Social Science and Christian Ethics

(02:17) Shela’s story: From queer liberation to finding yourself in Jesus

(18:18) Post-conversion: Queer experience, spiritual growth

(41:57) How we interpret the Bible determines where we end up

(47:00) Can Adam and Eve be archetypes for us today?

(58:15) The archetype of the eunuch and the “ideal male”

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★ Links and References

* The Romance of Innocent Sexuality, Geoffrey Rees (2011)

* About Tim Keller’s gay brother: https://ap.org.au/2024/10/01/timothy-kellers-brother/

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★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, and support!

Email: communionandshalom@gmail.com | Instagram: @newkinship | Substack: @newkinship | Patreon: @newkinship

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★ Credits

Creators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza, Tyler Parker | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, carlswensonmusic.com | Producer: Elena F. ★

As Side B Christians, we’ve done a lot of discernment around the ethics, practice, and vocation of celibacy (celibacy = practicing sexual chastity as an unmarried person), including discernment around lifelong vows of celibacy. In our own journeys, we’ve uncovered myths we’ve believed and encountered myths in our Christian communities.

We argue that celibacy and mixed-orientation-marriages are included in Side B, we reject the idea that celibacy necessarily means loneliness in the kingdom of God, we challenge the view that celibacy is merely sexual repression, we explain how vows can add goods (clarity, focus, support), we critique assumptions that marriage is actually superior, we demystify superstitions regarding celibacy and sanctification, and we contend that celibacy is a public vocation worthy of communal celebration.

We’d love to hear what you think after you give a listen!

Key Scriptures Referenced:

Matthew 19:4-5 “eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven”

1 Corinthians 7:9 “it is better to marry than to burn with passion.”

1 Corinthians 7:32–34 “an unmarried person is concerned about the Lord’s affairs”

Matthew 12:48-50 Who are my kin but “those who do the will of my Father?”

Hebrews 4:15 “tempted in every way common to man yet without sin”

Matthew 6:28 “lilies of the field”

Time Stamps:

00:00 Welcome to Kinship Lab 5

00:30 Why Celibacy Came Up

02:23 Myth 1: Celibacy as a Mandate

05:12 Marriage Paths and Barriers

07:03 Language Celibate vs Single

09:54 Myth 2: Celibacy is Loneliness

12:51 Single Mindedness and Freedom

17:03 Myth 3: Celibacy is Repression

21:07 Desire Struggle and 1 Corinthians 7

24:53 Marriage Is Not the Only Tool

25:59 Marriage Isn’t a Fix

26:24 Sexual Baggage in Marriage

27:10 Myth 4: Celibacy Vows Don’t Add Anything Good

33:24 Vows as Covenant Deepening

36:50 Myth 5: Marriage Is Actually Better Than Celibacy

40:48 Myth 6: Celibacy Vows Are a Level-Up

48:40 Myth 7: Celibacy Shouldn’t Be Celebrated Like Marriage

58:12 Kingdom Public Witness

Jon-Michael Shelley, a youth pastor in Atlanta, joins David and TJ to share about his journey as a Side B Christian from a Southern Baptist upbringing into the Anglican tradition. He discussed how liturgy, community, and pastoral care shaped his healing and vocation, and how he has come to understand sexuality as an integrated part of faithful discipleship and ministry. Jon-Michael also reflected on calling, celibacy, church leadership, and why he believes Side B Christians have meaningful gifts to offer the church.

Note: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” (and X, Y) as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: ⁠#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality⁠

★ About Our Guest

Jon-Michael Shelley is a youth pastor and preacher in the Anglican Church of North America. He’s mentored and discipled young people in church and parachurch ministries for ten years. He has a passion for fostering rich conversations about the deep truths of Christian life among young people and inviting them into relationship with the God who made them. He can be reached via email: jonmichael@immanuelatl.org or on Instagram: @jonmichaelshelley

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★ Timestamps

(00:00) #84 - Finding Space in the Anglican Church: Jon-Michael Shelley on Side B, Vocation, and Leadership

(01:28) Jon-Michael’s story

(10:07) How I ended up Anglican

(15:27) Sexuality growing up: Going under the radar

(24:09) Youth pastoring and parent perception in liberal secular environments

(28:38) Why are you Side B?

(40:28) Unique gifts in ministry as a gay man

(44:55) How did you change your take on getting married?

(50:13) Ordination in the ACNA?

(58:50) Hopes for the Anglican church on faith/sexuality topics

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★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, and support || Email: communionandshalom@gmail.com | Instagram: @newkinship | Substack: @newkinship

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★ Credits || Creators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza, Tyler Parker | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, carlswensonmusic.com | Podcast Manager: Elena F. ★

What's the big deal about celibate partnerships?!

Pieter Valk wrote an article in 2023 with a significant critique on celibate partnerships, but in 2026 he made significant revisions with an expanded imagination for the possibility and goodness that these kinds of relationships can play for Christians who are looking to live chaste lives within relationships of belonging and mutual care.

If you are new to the conversation, here is a brief description: celibate partnerships are long-term committed relationships between two people (typically of the same sex) who regard each other as their primary life partner, yet, unlike marriage, their relationship is not open to sexual activity.

The validity and shape of these relationships have been a prominent conversation and debate within the Side B community, so we’re grateful for the opportunity to read Pieter Valk’s thoughts and offer some of our own. We’d love to hear what you think after you give a listen! Here’s a few questions to stir your thinking:

Do you think conservative churches can embrace the possibility of celibate partnerships based on Pieter’s accommodation argument? or would they be better suited to develop an expanded imagination for friendship and spiritual siblinghood?

How do you think different forms of partnerships compete or complement investments into serving community or other facets of pursuing God?

What are the practical needs that people have, regardless of whether they are celibate or not, that need to be seriously considered?

References:

A thoughtful article by our friend Pieter Valk: https://equipyourcommunity.org/celibate-partnerships/

Time Stamps:

00:00 Kinship Lab #4 - Celibate Partnerships

01:19 Revoice Buzz

02:38 Why This Episode

07:08 Defining Celibate Partnership

10:29 Valk’s Argument Overview

15:43 Tapestry of Kinship

19:32 Strengths of the Article

24:17 Core Critiques

33:18 Romance and Vocation Boundaries

36:49 Biblical Examples and Categories

42:33 (Mis)Using Love Bible Verses and Inspiration for Partnership

46:35 Not Marriage Lite

55:00 Hot Take on Growth

01:00:28 Why Marriage Is Unique

01:05:23 Explaining Celibate Partnerships Publicly

01:10:36 Distinctions, Research, and Pastoral Anxiety

01:16:16 Constructive Feedback Wishlist

How do the comparisons we use for queer sexuality shape the way we think, believe, and respond to one another? TJ and podcast manager Elena explore—with new and previous guests—some metaphors Christians use to understand “being gay.” We talked strengths and limitations of each metaphor and how it can impact the lives of LGBTQ+ people. Take a listen, and then join the conversation on Substack!

Note: This episode uses the term “Side B” as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out Communion & Shalom episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: ⁠#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality⁠

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★ Timestamps

(00:00) #83 - “Being Gay Is Like...” The Metaphors We Use for Homosexuality

(00:38) Our metaphors shape our thinking

(07:53) “Being gay is like a disease”

(22:42) “Being gay is a curse...or worse...”

(33:40) “Being gay is like being an alcoholic”

(43:44) “Being gay is... an abomination...”

(56:21) “Being gay is like...an appetite [for food]”

(01:12:14) “Being gay is like being heterosexual”

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★ Links and References

Other episodes we referred to in this podcast:

#21 - Tate’s Story: Growing Up Gay in Texas

#24 - African Voices: Mwendia Shares on Same-Sex Attraction in Kenya

#52 - Affectionate towards Christ: A Journey of Faith with Pastor Shalom

#54 - Side B & Side X in Dialogue: With Jason Thompson from Portland Fellowship

#34 - Interview with a Longstanding Side B Ally, Misty Irons

Quoted: Catholic Answers Tract on “Homosexuality”: www.catholic.com/tract/homosexuality

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★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, or support:

Email: communionandshalom@gmail.com | Instagram: @newkinship | Substack: @newkinship | Patreon: @newkinship

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★ Credits

Creators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza, Tyler Parker | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, carlswensonmusic.com | Podcast Manager: Elena F. ★

David and TJ talked with Akwasi in Ghana about growing up Pentecostal while wrestling with same-sex attraction (SSA). Akwasi shares candidly about the cultural and church pressures surrounding sexuality and marriage in Ghana, and his commitment to pursuing holiness and discipleship even as his attractions remain. He also reflects on the challenges SSA Christians face in his context and his hope to support others through discipleship and community.

Note: This episode includes some comments suitable for adult audiences; listener discretion is advised.

About Our Guest: Akwasi is a Ghanaian Christian leader, creative strategist, and youth mentor passionate about discipling the next generation through faith and leadership. He is involved in building impactful initiatives that blend spiritual formation, mentorship, creativity, and community transformation, with a strong focus on young people in Ghana. He is committed to raising holistic believers and leaders who live boldly, think deeply, and influence society with conviction and excellence.

One of those initiatives is FOUND: Foundafric.org

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This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” (and X, Y) as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: ⁠#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality⁠

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★ Timestamps

(00:00) #82 - African Voices: Akwasi on Same-Sex Attraction in Ghana

(04:10) About Akwasi: Growing up in Pentecostal Africa

(06:39) Role playing mothers and fathers, other early history

(16:21) How does the church (and wider culture) in Ghana handle men “being gay” or being effeminate?

(35:27) SSA in Ghana: “Not many people name it”

(42:37) Friendships between men in U.S. compared to Ghana

(49:24) Do you pray for God to take away SSA (as a pentecostal)?

(51:38) What options does a SSA man in Ghana have? Celibacy, priest, only marriage?

(55:44) How do you think about dating (in some African culture)?

(01:03:03) Is having a best friend outside your marriage “emotional cheating”?

(01:15:59) Does Ghana have Side A? Why aren’t you Side A?

(01:22:51) Final Thoughts: Prayers for SSA men in the African Church

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★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, and support || Email: communionandshalom@gmail.com | Instagram: @newkinship | Substack: @newkinship

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★ Credits || Creators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza, Tyler Parker | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, carlswensonmusic.com | Podcast Manager: Elena F. ★