We are joined for this episode by Avril Chambers, the driving force behind one of the GMB union's biggest union building successes - organising school support staff. Avril shares the background to identifying and then union building amongst a new workforce of several hundred thousand. Those who say "it can't be done", "it costs too much", "it will never work" need to pay particular attention. The rest of us can only listen in admiration! More information at gmb.org.uk/public-services/schools-academies-and-education/. Companion blog here!

Organisationstend to do what they were designed to do, And unions were designed quite a long time ago in some cases. And what they need to do and what they actually do has kind of diverged.

Unfortunately, there's no theory of change a union can take off the shelf and say, right, if we do that, that'll work. You have to start in your own organisation.

Easy to say, more difficult to do - Simon and Martin share their decades of union experience to try and come up with a few pointers.

We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The General Federation of Trade Unions - delivering trade union education, building solidarity and the home of StrikeMap, Pellacraft, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Thank you all.

Episode run time 30m07s. Organising For A Change is presented by Martin Smith and Simon Sapper. Music is by Scott Holmes. It is a Makes-You-Think production. Contact the show at organising@makes-you-think.com. This episode was first published on 11 October. Next episode drops 25 October.

Welcome to Series 2.

In this episode, we're going to talk about how and why people join unions, and it’s not just because it's obviously the right thing to do.

Over the last 30 years we can probably say we know a lot more than people might think about the dynamics about how and why people join unions.

While the power of data is growing and is phenomenal in terms of helping us understand the how and the why. But the fundamentals don't actually change much, and we discuss how the 5 C’s are still at the core of any union building strategy.

So far so good, and potentially very powerful stuff. So to find out what the 5 C’s are, and why (and if) they still hold good, listen and make up your own mind!

We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The General Federation of Trade Unions - delivering trade union education, building solidarity and the home of StrikeMap, Pellacraft, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Thank you all.

Episode run time 29m10s. Organising For A Change is presented by Martin Smith and Simon Sapper. Music is by Scott Holmes. It is a Makes-You-Think production. Contact the show at orgainsing@makes-you-think.com. This episode was first published on 27 September. Next episode drops 11 October.