#245: Recorded live at the Saving Real Organic conference at Churchtown Dairy on September 27, 2025, co-directors Linley Dixon and Dave Chapman share a joint message about the future of organic farming and our movement’s next chapter. Linley exposes how USDA inaction has eroded organic integrity - from fraudulent grain imports to hydroponic berries - while Dave reflects on the legacy of pioneers like Fred Kirschenmann and Joan Gussow, who built the organic movement from the ground up. Together, they call on farmers, eaters, and advocates to come together, rebuild trust, and keep the meaning of organic alive. As Linley quotes Eliot Coleman: “We did it once, we can do it again.”

https://realorganicproject.org/saving-real-organic-linley-dave-churchtown-25

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince.

The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States this year. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations).

To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory

We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront.

If you like what you hear and are feeling inspired, we would love for you to join our movement by becoming one of our 1,000 Real Friends:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/real-organic-friends/

To read our weekly newsletter (which might just be the most forwarded newsletter on the internet!) and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/

#244: Montana farmer and author Bob Quinn believes the cure for chronic disease begins in the soil. His research comparing ancient and modern wheat varieties has led him to found his own 600 acre institute in the middle of his organic grain farm. Here Bob catches up with Dave to share an update on his White House meeting with Secretary of Agriculture Brooke Rollins and Secretary of Health RFK Jr and about rethinking agriculture as public health.

https://realorganicproject.org/bob-quinn-healing-earth-food-as-medicine-244

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince.

The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States this year. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations).

To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory

We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront.

If you like what you hear and are feeling inspired, we would love for you to join our movement by becoming one of our 1,000 Real Friends:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/real-organic-friends/

To read our weekly newsletter (which might just be the most forwarded newsletter on the internet!) and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/

Celebrated historian of science and author of Merchants of Doubt Naomi Oreskes exposes how powerful corporations distort science to protect profits, by using scientists who seek to promote their personal ideologies. She draws the lines between climate denial, food system disinformation, and the fight to preserve soil-based organic farming. This conversation is a call to defend both science and farming integrity against corporate control.

https://realorganicproject.org/naomi-oreskes-true-cost-of-doubt-243

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince.

The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States this year. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations).

To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory

We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront.

If you like what you hear and are feeling inspired, we would love for you to join our movement by becoming one of our 1,000 Real Friends:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/real-organic-friends/

To read our weekly newsletter (which might just be the most forwarded newsletter on the internet!) and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/

#242: Abby Rockefeller has spent her life pushing back against the toxic legacy of sewage sludge. In this interview, she unpacks how America’s sewer systems pollute water, contaminate farmland, and endanger farmers and eaters alike. From compost toilets to PFAS contamination, Abby makes the case for radically rethinking our waste and a returning to systems that support soil, water, and life.

https://realorganicproject.org/abby-rockefeller-sewage-sludge-242

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince.

The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States this year. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations).

To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory

We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront.

If you like what you hear and are feeling inspired, we would love for you to join our movement by becoming one of our 1,000 Real Friends:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/real-organic-friends/

To read our weekly newsletter (which might just be the most forwarded newsletter on the internet!) and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/

#241: Johanna Davis and Adam Nordell built their farm from scratch, growing vegetables and grains while weaving their community together through food and place. But after more than a decade of farming, they discovered their land, water, and bodies were poisoned by PFAS chemicals - “forever chemicals” spread decades earlier as sewage sludge billed as fertilizer. Their journey reveals the devastating impact of toxic contamination on farms and the urgent need to protect soil, farmers, and communities from systemic chemical pollution.

https://realorganicproject.org/adam-nordell-johanna-davis-pfas-organic-maine

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince.

The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States this year. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations).

To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory

We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront.

If you like what you hear and are feeling inspired, we would love for you to join our movement by becoming one of our 1,000 Real Friends:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/real-organic-friends/

To read our weekly newsletter (which might just be the most forwarded newsletter on the internet!) and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/

#240: Barbara Kingsolver reflects on her lifelong connection to food, her friendship with Joan Gussow, and the spiritual, cultural, and political meaning of how we eat. She shares why fiction can change hearts, why capitalism has reshaped food culture, and why hope is a responsibility we must practice every day.

https://realorganicproject.org/barbara-kingsolver-ode-to-joan-gussow-240

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince.

The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States this year. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations).

To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory

We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront.

If you like what you hear and are feeling inspired, we would love for you to join our movement by becoming one of our 1,000 Real Friends:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/real-organic-friends/

To read our weekly newsletter (which might just be the most forwarded newsletter on the internet!) and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/

#239: California organic farmer and Del Cabo cooperative founder Larry Jacobs returns to discuss why organic farming must remain firmly rooted in soil and not bend to allow hydroponics. Larry’s proven commitment to integrity comes through via his role in a lawsuit against the USDA over the inclusion of hydroponics under the organic seal, as well as his efforts to educate his staff about the issues facing the organic movement, beyond their daily work.

https://realorganicproject.org/larry-jacobs-lawsuit-labeling-organic-239

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince.

The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States this year. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations).

To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory

We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront.

If you like what you hear and are feeling inspired, we would love for you to join our movement by becoming one of our 1,000 Real Friends:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/real-organic-friends/

To read our weekly newsletter (which might just be the most forwarded newsletter on the internet!) and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/

#238: Cameron Molberg of Greener Pastures Chicken shares how he’s building a vertically integrated model for pasture-raised organic chicken without cutting corners - as is typically done with the majority of usda organic labeled poultry found in chain supermarkets. From animal welfare to USDA loopholes, and feed fraud to school lunch programs, Cameron lays out the challenges and opportunities of scaling real organic poultry in a system that favors confinement.

https://realorganicproject.org/cameron-molberg-real-organic-poultry-at-scale-238

The Real Organic Podcast is hosted by Dave Chapman and Linley Dixon, engineered by Brandon StCyr, and edited and produced by Jenny Prince.

The Real Organic Project is a farmer-led movement working towards certifying 1,000 farms across the United States this year. Our add-on food label distinguishes soil-grown fruits and vegetables from hydroponically-raised produce, and pasture-raised meat, milk, and eggs from products harvested from animals in horrific confinement (CAFOs - confined animal feeding operations).

To find a Real Organic farm near you, please visit:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/directory

We believe that the organic standards, with their focus on soil health, biodiversity, and animal welfare were written as they should be, but that the current lack of enforcement of those standards is jeopardizing the ability for small farms who adhere to the law to stay in business. The lack of enforcement is also jeopardizing the overall health of the customers who support the organic movement; customers who are not getting what they pay for at market but still paying a premium price. And the lack of enforcement is jeopardizing the very cycles (water, air, nutrients) that Earth relies upon to provide us all with a place to live, by pushing extractive, chemical agriculture to the forefront.

If you like what you hear and are feeling inspired, we would love for you to join our movement by becoming one of our 1,000 Real Friends:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/real-organic-friends/

To read our weekly newsletter (which might just be the most forwarded newsletter on the internet!) and get firsthand news about what's happening with organic food, farming and policy, please subscribe here:

https://www.realorganicproject.org/email/