When the Church Harms Instead of Heals: A Conversation with Dr. Diane Langberg

Does the church always protect the vulnerable? Unfortunately, the answer is no. Too often, church leaders and institutions protect their own reputation, power, and influence instead of the wounded and abused. This episode is a crucial conversation with world-renowned trauma expert Dr. Diane Langberg, who has spent over five decades counseling survivors of abuse and working to bring truth and light into the darkest places within the church.

In this episode, Leslie Vernick and Dr. Langberg discuss how churches can—and must—do better. They expose the dangerous ways churches enable abuse, misuse power, and silence victims in the name of God. If you've ever felt unheard, dismissed, or spiritually manipulated by those in leadership, this conversation will offer both validation and hope.

1. Why Churches Struggle to See and Address Abuse The church has been slow to acknowledge abuse within its walls. Too often, the institution is prioritized over the people. Jesus called leaders to "feed my sheep," yet many churches protect the system instead. Abuse survivors need churches that reflect Christ’s heart, not just uphold doctrine.

2. The Harmful Messages Women Hear About Abuse and Marriage Many women are told that preserving marriage at all costs is God’s will, even at the expense of their physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being. But God hates sin more than divorce. Jesus himself walked away from people who refused truth, and women are not called to stay in destructive relationships to honor God.

3. The Self-Deception of Abusive Church Leaders Abusive pastors and leaders often twist Scripture to justify their actions. They protect their reputations and minimize their sins, deceiving not only others but themselves. True repentance requires exposure and accountability, not secrecy and cover-ups.

4. How to Create Safer Churches for Abuse Survivors Churches must shift their focus from building large institutions to becoming places that reflect Christ’s love and justice. This means listening to survivors, seeking expert training, and prioritizing character over charisma in leadership.

5. God's Heart for the Wounded For those who have been harmed by their church, Dr. Langberg offers a powerful reminder: God sees, weeps, and hates the evil done in His name. He does not ask you to stay in an abusive situation. He is for you, not against you.

• Dr. Diane Langberg’s book: When the Church Harms God's People
• Dr. Diane Langberg's website: www.dianelangberg.com
• Leslie Vernick’s resources for abuse survivors: www.leslievernick.com
• Need support? Join our private community for women seeking healing and guidance.

If you've been hurt by the church, know this: God is not like the leaders who failed you. He sees you, loves you, and wants you to walk in freedom. Your voice matters, and healing is possible.

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Have you ever found yourself stuck in a cycle of hoping things will change, only to be disappointed over and over again? Maybe you’re in a destructive marriage, and deep down, you know the truth... but accepting it feels impossible.

In this episode, Leslie Vernick and Julie Sedenko dive into what true acceptance looks like, especially for women in difficult relationships. But here’s the key: Acceptance doesn’t mean giving up. It doesn’t mean resigning yourself to misery. Instead, it’s about facing the truth so that you can take back your power and choose your next steps wisely.

If you’re exhausted from trying to change someone who refuses to change, this episode will help you shift your mindset and start taking care of yourself because you are worth it.

• Denying reality doesn’t change it, it only keeps you stuck.
• Accepting a hard truth doesn’t mean you have to like it, but it does mean you can begin to move forward.
• Resisting reality drains your energy. Facing it, even when it hurts, is the first step to healing and change.

• Accepting the truth about your marriage doesn’t mean it will never change, but it does mean you stop relying on "hopium", the false hope that if you just try harder, he’ll be different.
• When you accept reality, you regain your power by asking: “What are my choices now?”
• Acceptance leads to action. You can start making plans for your well-being, rather than waiting for someone else to change.

• If your husband refuses to change, you can choose how you will respond.
• Your choices might include setting firmer boundaries, building financial independence, finding emotional support, or even considering separation.
• Instead of waiting for someone else to rescue you, step into the role God has given you as the steward of your own life.

• Feeling like a doormat? That’s a sign you need better boundaries.
• Being kind does not mean letting people take advantage of you.
• When you start saying “no,” pay attention to how people respond. Do they respect your boundaries, or do they punish you for them? That tells you a lot about the relationship.

• If your needs aren’t being met in your marriage, you don’t have to stay stuck in resentment. Instead, you can take steps to meet them in other ways.
• Stop waiting for your husband to make you feel valued, loved, or celebrated. Celebrate yourself.
• God calls us to steward our lives wisely. Taking care of yourself is not selfish, it’s responsible.

Are you struggling to accept a painful truth in your marriage? You don’t have to go through this alone. Ready to take action and grow stronger? Walking in CORE Strength is a coaching program designed to help you build confidence, set boundaries, and reclaim your life. Learn more and join us here.

Acceptance is hard, but it’s also the doorway to freedom. When you stop fighting the truth, you can start making choices that bring peace, strength, and healing into your life. You are not alone, and God will give you the courage to take the next step.

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RESOURCES: Join Walking in Core Strength Today! Beth Allison Barr's website "Becoming the Pastor's Wife" by Beth Allison Barr What does it mean to be a pastor’s wife? Is it a God-ordained role, or has it been shaped by culture? And how do women in ministry or marriage find freedom when their identity feels crushed under the weight of unrealistic expectations?

In this powerful and eye-opening episode, Leslie sits down with Dr. Beth Allison Barr, a medieval historian, pastor’s wife, and author of The Making of Biblical Womanhood and Becoming the Pastor’s Wife: How Marriage Replaced Ordination as Women’s Paths to Ministry. Together, they uncover the hidden history of women in the church, the pressures placed on pastor’s wives, and the rise of complementarian theology that has harmed both women and men. Beth also shares practical wisdom for women navigating abusive marriages, ministry challenges, and the journey to rediscover their God-given identity.

Whether you’re a pastor’s wife, married to a man in leadership, or simply navigating the tension between cultural expectations and God’s calling, this episode will inspire you to seek truth, embrace courage, and step into the freedom God has for you.

Key Takeaways:

1. The Pastor’s Wife Role: Cultural, Not Biblical Many assume the role of the pastor’s wife is biblically mandated, but Beth reveals that it is a cultural construct that emerged in modern history. While the role can be valuable for those called to it, it is not the primary calling for all women. Recognizing this truth is freeing and helps dismantle harmful expectations.

2. Empowering Lessons from Black Churches Black pastor’s wives have historically embraced more freedom and authority in their roles, often co-pastoring or pursuing ministry outside their husband’s church. Unlike white evangelical churches, where the pastor’s wife is expected to embody the “ideal” biblical woman, Black church traditions emphasize authenticity and community support.

3. The Legacy of Women in Church Leadership The medieval church had space for women in leadership, with figures like Mary Magdalene, Hildegard of Bingen, and Catherine of Siena preaching and holding authority. Beth challenges listeners to revisit Romans 16, where women are commended as apostles, deacons, and house church leaders, proving that women’s leadership has always been part of God’s design.

4. The Rise of Complementarian Theology and Its Harm Complementarian theology, which ties women’s worth to their husband’s ministry, rose in the 20th century as a reaction to women gaining autonomy in society. This theology pressures women to prioritize their husband’s needs over their own, often leading to emotional and spiritual harm. It also isolates pastor’s wives, making it difficult for them to find support or speak out against abuse.

5. The Burden of Perfection and the Danger of Silence Pastor’s wives—and women in ministry—often feel pressured to maintain an image of perfection, from their appearance to their children’s behavior. This isolation becomes dangerous when they are in abusive marriages, as speaking out can cost them everything. Leslie and Beth discuss the importance of breaking the silence, seeking support, and prioritizing safety over the preservation of harmful institutions.

6. Becoming God-Centered, Not Husband-Centered Women are often taught to center their lives on their husbands, but true freedom comes from being God-centered. Leslie and Beth encourage listeners to seek God’s voice and ask, “What are you calling me to do?” Each woman is uniquely gifted and called for a purpose beyond cultural expectations.

Episode Title: The Courage to Walk Away: Leah’s Story of Love, Loss, and Finding Strength

Introduction Have you ever found yourself questioning everything you thought you knew about love, trust, and commitment? What if the dream you’ve been waiting for suddenly didn’t feel right? In today’s episode, Julie Sedenko sits down with Leah, a woman who was weeks away from getting married when she made the gut-wrenching decision to call off her wedding. Leah’s story is different from our usual guests—she’s never been married—but her journey of faith, resilience, and self-discovery will challenge the way you think about relationships, red flags, and the courage to choose what’s right over what’s expected.

If you’ve ever felt the pressure of time, culture, or expectations pushing you toward a decision that doesn’t sit well in your spirit, this episode is for you. Leah shares how she navigated an unexpected betrayal, deep grief, and the healing she found through Leslie Vernick’s coaching programs. You won’t want to miss the wisdom and strength that radiates from her testimony.

Key Takeaways:

1. When Love Doesn't Feel Safe Leah shares how she initially felt deeply connected to her fiancé—he was kind, communicative, and a gentleman. But things changed when they reunited after a period of long-distance. His sudden shift in behavior—being overly aggressive physically and dismissive of her boundaries—set off warning bells. While he never crossed certain lines, Leah realized his actions felt more objectifying than affectionate. This raised the question: Was he really honoring her, or was he testing how much he could get away with?

2. The Danger of Assumed Agreement Cross-cultural relationships come with unique challenges, but Leah had spent years preparing for this. She believed they had aligned on key values—faith, purity, finances, and family. However, as marriage became imminent, she discovered he had merely tolerated her views rather than sharing them. His ultimate admission? “I thought you would change your mind.” Leah’s story is a powerful reminder that assumptions are not agreements, and time does not equal trustworthiness.

3. The Devastating Reality of Calling Off a Wedding Leah’s decision to walk away wasn’t just about losing a relationship—it meant leaving her home, career, and the future she had envisioned. She grieved not only the man she loved but the life she had built. At almost 40, she also faced the reality that by the time she found another relationship, her window for having biological children might be closed. The depth of this loss was overwhelming, and she cried nearly every day for two years. But in the midst of her pain, she discovered a deeper truth: sometimes, walking away is the bravest thing you can do.

4. Finding Strength Through Core Principles As Leah sought healing, she discovered Leslie Vernick’s coaching programs, including Moving Beyond People Pleasing and Walking in Core Strength. These programs provided her with validation, support, and a framework to navigate relationships in a healthier way. Two key lessons stood out:

• Courageously Committed to the Truth: Holding onto truth and boundaries is not harsh—it’s healthy. Jesus embodied grace and truth, and so should we.

• Empathy Without Enabling: You can love someone deeply while still holding firm boundaries. Someone being upset with you does not make you a bad person.

5. Redefining the Finish Line Many women are raised to believe marriage is the ultimate goal, but Leah has come to see things differently. While she still desires a healthy marriage, she no longer sees it as a measure of her worth. “I know who I am, whether or not I’m married,” she says. “And I will be the same person if I ever do get married as I am right now.”

Final Encouragement If you’re facing a difficult relationship decision, remember this: Yellow lights don’t turn green, they turn red. Ignoring the warning signs won’t make them go away. Leah’s story is proof that choosing integrity over convenience may be painful, but it leads to true freedom. You are not alone, and you are stronger than you think.

Resources Register for Leslie's Webinar, February 13: "I'm Not Okay When You're Not Okay" Think you might be in a destructive marriage? Get Leslie's Quick Start Guide here. Do you feel like the weight of every decision in your marriage or family is on your shoulders? Are you struggling with a spouse who refuses to engage or, worse, actively makes things harder? If decision-making feels overwhelming and you're stuck in fear of making the wrong choice, this episode is for you. Leslie Vernick shares insights on overcoming decision paralysis, handling an unengaged spouse, and finding clarity even when the path forward is uncertain.

Key Takeaways

1. You Don’t Have to Make the Perfect Decision Many people stay stuck in indecision because they fear making the wrong choice. But the truth is, no one has perfect information all the time. Even a wrong decision can provide valuable insight, allowing you to adjust and move forward. Instead of viewing decisions as permanent, think of them as opportunities to learn and course-correct along the way.

2. Indecision Is Still a Decision Choosing not to decide is, in itself, a decision—with its own consequences. If you're paralyzed by fear or waiting for your spouse to take action, recognize that staying in limbo is creating an outcome, too. Instead of waiting for someone else to change, take responsibility for what you can control and move forward with wisdom.

3. How to Handle a Spouse Who Won’t Participate in Decision-Making If your spouse is disengaged, you have choices in how you respond: with resentment, with curiosity, or with acceptance. Ask yourself: Is he afraid of making mistakes? Has he been criticized in the past? Does he struggle with change? By approaching the situation with understanding rather than frustration, you can free yourself from bitterness and take action where necessary.

4. Understanding Fear and Avoidance in Decision-Making Fear can be paralyzing, especially for someone who has been conditioned to avoid risk. Some people resist making decisions due to past trauma, upbringing, or personality differences. For example, if your spouse grew up in an environment where mistakes were punished harshly, he may struggle to take initiative. Recognizing this can help you approach the situation with grace rather than resentment.

5. When You’re Not Allowed to Make Decisions What if you’re on the opposite end of the spectrum—where your spouse makes all the decisions, even when they are harmful? If his leadership is damaging your family financially, emotionally, or spiritually, you may need to establish firm boundaries. Seeking wise counsel, setting limits, and refusing to enable destructive choices are crucial steps in reclaiming your voice and protecting your well-being.

6. The Power of Boundaries and Choice Having boundaries helps you exercise your power of choice. This is what I will do. This is what I won’t do. This is what I can do. This is what I can’t do. But setting boundaries also means learning to live with others’ disappointment and resentment. Whether it’s your children, spouse, or extended family, making decisions that are good for you—and ultimately for them—often comes with resistance. Accepting this reality allows you to move forward with confidence rather than guilt.

7. Living from Your Noble Self Instead of Your Emotions Acting out of your noble self means making decisions that align with who you are in Christ, rather than being driven by fear, resentment, or a need for approval. It’s about showing up in your life with strength and dignity, just like the Proverbs 31 woman. You don’t need to apologize for being wise, decisive, or courageous. God designed you to make choices, and embracing this responsibility is part of spiritual maturity.

8. You Always Have Choices Even in the hardest circumstances, you still have choices. Viktor Frankl, a Holocaust survivor, wrote that everything can be taken from a person except one thing: the ability to choose how they will respond. If you feel trapped in your marriage, your job, or another painful situation, start by asking: How do I want to be in this moment? What small steps can I take toward change? Recognizing your power to choose—even in small ways—can be incredibly freeing.

9. Trusting God in the Decision-Making Process God doesn’t expect you to make perfect decisions, but He does call you to trust Him and take action. The Bible says, “You will hear a voice behind you saying, ‘This is the way; walk in it’” (Isaiah 30:21). As you seek wisdom, make the best choice you can, and be open to self-correction when necessary.

RESOURCES

1. Leslie's Quick Start Guide
2. Brad Hambrick's Blog: Why Is It So Hard to Have Constructive Conversations About Abuse? Church Cares
3. American Association of Christian Counselors (AACC)
4. Equip

Show Notes: Why Churches Resist Abuse Ministry

Introduction Have you ever wondered why churches sometimes hesitate or even resist addressing abuse within their congregations? In today’s episode, Leslie Vernick unpacks this difficult but vital question. She shares her years of experience working with churches and individuals to create safer spaces for those harmed by abuse. Whether you’ve felt dismissed by your church, or you’re striving to bring change, this conversation offers clarity, hope, and practical steps forward. Together, we’ll explore why this resistance exists, what’s changing, and how we can be part of the solution.

Key Takeaways

1. The History of Church Resistance to Abuse Ministry

• In the past, many churches believed abuse wasn’t a problem among Christians, leading to unsafe environments for children and vulnerable members.
• Change was driven largely by legal and financial accountability rather than a proactive desire for safety.
• Churches must recognize the reality of abuse and embrace preventative measures as part of their mission to love and protect their people.

2. The Misconceptions That Fuel Resistance

• Many church leaders empathize more with the fear of false accusations than with victims’ lived experiences, despite false reports being rare.
• Misunderstandings about what constitutes abuse—such as emotional or sexual abuse within marriage—prevent churches from addressing it effectively.

3. The Role of Leadership in Healthy Relationships

• Biblical headship is about servant leadership, not power or control. Healthy leaders use their influence to empower and uplift others, reflecting Christ’s example.
• Submission, as taught in Scripture, is a voluntary act rooted in mutual love and respect—not coercion or oppression.

4. Why Individual Healing Must Precede Marriage Work

• Starting with marriage counseling in abusive situations often leads to failure. Individual healing for both parties is essential before addressing the relationship.
• Churches can support this process by encouraging personal growth and connecting individuals with appropriate resources.

5. Resources to Equip Churches for Better Ministry

• Free tools like the Church Cares Curriculum provide essential training for addressing abuse.
• Leslie’s EQUIP group offers ongoing support and education for pastors, counselors, and leaders seeking to handle abuse well.

A Personal Invitation If you’re a church leader, counselor, or someone who wants to advocate for healthier, safer relationships in your community, take the next step. Visit LeslieVernick.com to learn more about EQUIP and access resources designed to empower leaders and protect the vulnerable.

Change is possible when we open our hearts to God’s guidance and truly listen to the pain of those around us. If you’ve been hurt by the church or feel overwhelmed as a leader, know that God sees you and desires healing and growth.

Listen to the full episode now and share it with your pastor or church leader! Together, we can foster safer, healthier communities.

Hear this raw conversation with Julie Sedenko and Jessica about recognizing and escaping covert abuse in her Christian marriage

RESOURCES

• Leslie Vernick's website
• Leslie's Quick Start Guide

The Relationship Timeline

• Love bombing during dating phase
• Emotional regulation issues during engagement
• Marriage lasted 2 years
• Ended with 6-week separation

Red Flags & Patterns

• Husband proud of his "manipulation talent"
• Consistent gaslighting and emotional control
• Sexual addiction disclosed pre-wedding
• Financial dependence despite her being primary breadwinner
• Isolation from family and friends

Turning Points

• The wedding incident revealing deeper issues
• Writing "the letter" that sparked change
• Breaking point during Bible study
• Understanding God's word "faithful" in new light

Finding Help

• Leslie Vernick's teachings
• CORE program principles
• Conquer program
• Church community support