Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

著者： Sean Sun and Andrew Askins
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  • Two agency owners and friends talk about cybersecurity, design, and the continuous small efforts it takes to build a business.
    © 2024 Sean Sun and Andrew Askins
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  • Getting called out, finding new data sources, and how to interpret user research

    Getting called out, finding new data sources, and how to interpret user research
    2024/09/16
    In this episode, Andrew and Sean got hit up by someone clearly using Podscan... again! They talk about it, then Andrew shares details about his recent trip to Mexico City, including highlights like a hot air balloon ride over the pyramids and an exciting Lucha Libre wrestling match.Sean provides an update on Stackwise, discussing the data sources they've uncovered and the challenges of building a comprehensive database. Meanwhile, Andrew delves into the validation process for his latest SEO-focused startup idea, weighing the pros and cons of targeting different user segments.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...Podscan.fm: https://podscan.fm/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:01.71SeanYou know what we should rename our podcast tagline to?00:05.21Andrewsandwich free.00:06.47SeanNo, not same.00:09.97AndrewWhat is that?00:10.48SeanNo, the best case study that Podscan works.00:15.95SeanWe should be front page on Podscan FM.00:18.73AndrewGenuinely, we should we should reach out to it's not Arjun. What's his name, Arran?00:24.60SeanI have no idea. I don't know who makes Podscan. I just know about it.00:27.08AndrewOh, he's he's the dude who's the. ah ah Oh, fuck, I signed out of Twitter everywhere. so that I wouldn't get distracted.00:36.50SeanNice. I'll look it up.00:37.86AndrewArlen, something like that, he built he built like class dojo or he he built some like teaching software with his wife, sold it.00:48.13SeanArvid. Arvid.00:48.97AndrewArvid, Arvid call, that's his name.00:49.57SeanArvid.00:51.16AndrewYeah, yeah, yeah. Also, if avid has a and Arvid hot scan trigger, we'll find out.00:56.81SeanYeah, we'll find out. Arvid.00:59.14AndrewSo, hey Arvid.00:59.99SeanArvid call. Arvid call. Arvid call. Feedback panda. Arvid call.01:03.88Andrewfeed neck to end there, that's what it was.01:06.67SeanZero to sold, or we'd call. Alright, maybe we'll summon him for the next one.01:12.62AndrewYeah, that was wild. So, I get...01:18.40AndrewI forget which podcast episodes we've published because I'm behind. So I like didn't even realize I'd published that episode.01:24.75SeanYeah.01:24.82AndrewBut we published a podcast episode where we were kind of like, I was hating on intro. You're pro intro. I was hating on intro.01:32.17SeanUh-huh.01:33.57AndrewAnd then the CEO of intro tweeted at us this week and was like, here's why you're wrong and why intro is great.01:39.63Seannot Really, it's not really a tweet. It was kind of an essay, actually. It was kind of like, yeah, yeah.01:42.93AndrewYeah.01:44.32SeanBut that's the second time someone famous on the internet has hit us up on Twitter because of that.01:49.41AndrewI wish they would fucking promote our podcast when they treat at us.01:56.45SeanI don't know.01:56.90AndrewInstead of doing it so subtly.01:57.13SeanI feel like this is a secret and feel like there's a little secret growth hack in there, you know?02:01.18AndrewYeah, but the girth hack only works if they like tell people about you.02:06.72SeanNo, no, no, no, no. I think that you can leverage it for, for more reach.02:08.29AndrewTo become biffles.02:12.19SeanCause if I, cause if I reply to his thing, I'm, you know, I feel like there's enough Twitter engagement there in in the, you know, get the algo going and, and, and you know, what is beef marketing?02:22.26AndrewIs this like even grosser beef marketing?02:27.16AndrewBeef marketing is when you start beef with somebody just for like the views and the clicks.02:30.09SeanOh, I see.02:35.19AndrewSo obnoxious.02:36.88SeanI say yeah.02:37.09Andrewyeah who's You know who's the king of beef marketing?02:41.16SeanNo. Who's the king of beef marketing?02:42.94AndrewDHH. DHH is the02:44.69SeanOh.02:45.98AndrewThe king, the founder, the creator, the the god of beef marketing.02:51.86SeanRight, right, right.02:52.08AndrewThat man can start beef with anybody.02:54.78Seanright say well What's his full name? Just in case pods can.02:56.89AndrewDavid Heinemeyer Hanson.02:58.48SeanOK, cool, cool, cool. Basecamp, basecamp, basecamp. Maybe he uses Podscan too. Yeah. Yeah. Jason.03:08.45SeanYeah. I don't know. I think he has good ideas sometimes.03:14.37AndrewWhat did you actually think of the intro guy's response to us? I can no longer pull up because I logged myself out of Twitter and don't want to log back in.03:23.34Seanyou know i think i appreciated the thoughtful response um um on it that's kind of03:29.13AndrewYou want to summarize real quick?03:29.28Seanweirded I was weirded out yeah I was weird for what's worth a a little bit weird out kind of kind of weird ...
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    52 分
  • Freemium and new goals

    Freemium and new goals
    2024/09/12
    Note: This episode was supposed to come out a couple of weeks ago. But Andrew forgot to attach the audio file when he went to publish, so it's just been sitting in our podcast hosting software. Sorry about that. In this episode, Andrew and Sean dig into Paul Graham's founder mode essay that has gone viral in the past couple of weeks. Spoiler alert: Andrew is not a fan. Sean talks about the challenges of evolving client demands with Miscreants, while Andrew recounts his experiences in Mexico City and his decision to pivot ChartJuice towards a freemium model. Then they talk through some of Andrew's new AI-related business ideas, including automating marketing graphics and financial modeling for agencies, and his new co-founder and year-end goals.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00.63SeanCan I start this podcast off by reading you a quote?00:06.34AndrewSure, I'm so curious.00:10.28Seanum Have you seen the Ted Chiang essay about Gen AI?00:15.59AndrewNo.00:16.55Seanokay um It was on The New Yorker. he okay so00:20.85AndrewFor a second, when you said JIN AI, I thought J-E-N, and I thought this was like some new AI company I hadn't heard of that named their AI JIN, as in short for Jennifer, and then I realized I'm an idiot, and you're talking about generative AI.00:34.68Andrewso00:35.09SeanWell, there's there's a startup called, I think, Jim, it's like a 25 year old like Korean person who Korean guy um and he like did like the rounds on YouTube for a little bit about how he like went from like broke to 100 million in net worth overnight because.00:35.41Andrewah00:41.20AndrewOh, that's cool.00:51.05AndrewJesus Christ. What?00:52.11Seanum I mean, it was like the dawn of like LLM stuff and jennna I had just started so.00:57.32AndrewYeah.00:57.44Seanadam00:57.71AndrewOkay. All right. Hit me with the quote.00:59.67SeanOkay, so let me just preface this. Ted Chiang, excellent sci-fi writer, um um ah wrote a really great book called Exhalation, one of my favorites.01:10.54Seanum01:10.83AndrewOh, I've been wanting to read that.01:12.94SeanYeah, excellent, excellent book.01:15.57AndrewCool.01:16.59SeanWould recommend, there's like a two page story in there that I really, really like. But, um You know, this this would have been great if i if I had it pull up, and I didn't.01:28.60AndrewHad it pulled up if you were prepared.01:31.18SeanYeah, yeah, yeah. But that's not how we do things. we you You know what? I can't find in this article. So I'm going to pull it up on a Slack thing.01:42.69SeanOK. um It's just the task that generative a generative AI has been most successful at is lowering our expectations. um And I was like, damn.01:54.53AndrewOh, interesting.01:55.78Seanhot take yeah uh01:57.03AndrewHow do, okay. So how do you interpret that?02:00.61Seanwell um i sent it as like a kind of honestly like uh02:05.49AndrewDo you agree?02:10.72SeanYeah, yeah, I do. um I don't agree with his essay. I think his essay about how his essay is about how Gen AI won't ever make art, and I think that's arguably true, um but I think that he misses the fact that Gen AI would be an art form, and people will use it the way that they make art with Photoshop and then collage things together.02:25.42AndrewSure, but at that point, it's not Gen AI making the art, I don't think. I think it's human artists making art using Gen AI as a medium or a tool.02:29.77Seanyou02:35.06SeanAgreed, agreed.02:35.66Andrewah like I think what he's saying is like the thing that Gen AI, at least in its current form, can't think.02:36.21Seanhence in02:43.90Andrewright it doesn't It doesn't produce creative thought.02:44.72SeanRight.02:46.78Andrewit's not It's not actually that intelligent, even though it's really good at looking intelligent.02:47.70SeanRight.02:53.73SeanRight.02:53.80Andrewum it just it repeats it guesses it and you know there's still this possibility that if we like scale it up enough we find out that that's all we do anyway and original thought is all just like guessing and repeating and suddenly it's doing what we can do but like we think that most likely we will need a new technological revolution like and a different form of AI technology paired with02:58.14SeanYeah. yeah03:13.96SeanSure.03:25.17Andrewpaired with or that replaces our current. Anyway, sorry, you know all this shit I'm preaching to the choir.03:28.49Seanknow um Well, to go back to the quote, I absolutely think it's true.03:33.93AndrewYeah.03:34.93SeanI actually think Gen. AI makes incredibly mid stuff. um Yeah.03:39.30AndrewYeah, for the most part. Yeah.03:41.52SeanBut I think we are always astounded by it because of the speed at which it can make incredibly mid stuff is impressive...
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    54 分
  • How do you know when to quit?

    How do you know when to quit?
    2024/08/22
    In this episode, Andrew talks about his upcoming trip to Mexico City, which started as a potential plan to live there but has evolved into a working vacation. Sean talks about recent challenges in his agency, including team members getting sick after conferences and some project misfires with smaller clients. Andrew then gives an update on the lukewarm progress he's seeing with ChartJuice (complete with raw metrics) and again ponders a freemium pivot. He's grappling with the question - how do you know when to give up on a SaaS product? They wrap up by debating whether shelling out big bucks for 15 minutes with a big shot is worth it or just a fancy way to burn cash.Links:Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/ChartJuice: https://www.chartjuice.com/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/StackWise: Coming soon...FigTree: Coming soon...For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:00:01.34Seanbut what up what up00:00:02.64AndrewNot much, just ah trying to get a full week of work done for the first time in what feels like weeks um in part because I am headed to Mexico City next week.00:00:09.84Seanyeah well00:00:14.45Andrewum And I'll be working from there, but the first week I'm only going to have like two days because um Maddie gets in like midday Thursday.00:00:14.79Seanyeah00:00:24.72AndrewI'm traveling Monday. um We've got plans Friday um and Thursday afternoon. So it's like, yeah, I'm i'm not getting shit done.00:00:35.69Seanare you Are you going, like, is there a reason you're going or are you just going to hang out because you like.00:00:35.75AndrewSo.00:00:41.99Andrewum It started with like Maddie and I had kind of talked about like this pipe dream of maybe living in Mexico City one day.00:00:49.90SeanOh.00:00:50.25Andrewum Part of me really wants to live in a Spanish speaking country at some point um so that I can become properly fluent because I've been taking Spanish lessons um almost every week for the last like year and some change.00:01:04.58SeanOK.00:01:05.07Andrewum and so And I've just always wanted to be fluent in Spanish. So this was kind of supposed to be a test run. It was a goal I set for myself this year. I was like, all right, I'm taking this year off. I'm focusing on startup shit. But I also want to make sure I still get in at least one long backpacking trip, which I did with my dad. And then I want to go to Mexico City for a couple weeks.00:01:25.52SeanOh yeah.00:01:25.58Andrewum So, um yeah, the plan is to kind of work from there and try to like, try to spend some time.00:01:37.70AndrewWe're going to, again, take some days, have some fun, explore, but then also have some days where it's like go to a working space ah and just like live a normal life.00:01:41.52SeanYeah. Yeah.00:01:48.19Andrewum I think that like the odds of moving to Mexico City are not very high anymore, like it just doesn't feel like it's probably going to fit into like our life plan.00:02:00.44SeanMm00:02:00.83Andrewum But I think that I um would still strongly consider going for a longer stint at some point.00:02:03.94Sean-hmm.00:02:10.30AndrewSo like the school I take lessons from is based in Puebla, which is, like I think, like two hours from Mexico City. So if I like it a lot and you this continues to be a goal, then I might, at some point, go spend a couple months at the school to try to become fluent.00:02:30.28SeanNice, nice. Have I ever told you that I have a pipe dreamer living in Vegas?00:02:37.53AndrewYeah, yeah, we've talked about it.00:02:38.27Seangood Okay, okay, cool, cool, cool, cool. Because I want to be fluid in losing all my money at the casino.00:02:42.93Andrewyeah00:02:45.71SeanThat's cool.00:02:45.76AndrewYou just want DEFCON year round, huh?00:02:48.13SeanYeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. um00:02:51.19AndrewDEFCON's a lot of fun. That sounds awful. DEFCON year round sounds like the worst thing in the world.00:02:55.66SeanYou know, there's a new there's a new conference now that's like going to be the new new big thing, um supposedly.00:02:59.98AndrewReally?00:03:00.66SeanYeah, it goes. It's the Monday right after DEFCON and Black Hat. It's called A.I. 4. It's like the new hotness because it's all like A.I. stuff. It's a corporate event. um00:03:10.75AndrewHotness outside of cybersecurity.00:03:12.58SeanNo, like in in cybersecurity as well.00:03:15.31AndrewBut but like it has broader reach than cybersecurity?00:03:17.72SeanI think so. I think so.00:03:19.29AndrewOK.00:03:19.74SeanI think so. I haven't looked so much into it. I just know that, like, yeah. I just know that. Well, my guess is it's going to be like the black hat, but for AI, basically. um00:03:28.63AndrewWhat was the old hotness?00:03:30.68SeanBlack hat.00:03:32.12AndrewBut like outside of cybersecurity, what was the old hotness?00:03:32.46SeanBlack hat artist thing. Oh, I have no idea. I don't know.00:03:35.77AndrewYeah...
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Two agency owners and friends talk about cybersecurity, design, and the continuous small efforts it takes to build a business.
© 2024 Sean Sun and Andrew Askins
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