Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

Is leadership about enduring endless challenges without ever, y’know, faltering? Or is it about recognizing when to slow down, step back, acknowledge our weaknesses and reconnect with the God who calls us?

In this episode, Mandy Smith, author of Confessions of an Amateur Saint, talks about developing our capacity when ministry gets hard, the essential role of rest, and how we can find strength even in times of desperation.


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Mandy Smith underscores the necessity of recognizing burnout early and taking intentional breaks for spiritual reflection.
• Mandy Smith reveals her practice of observing a Monday Sabbath, emphasizing the importance of uninterrupted rest in remembering spiritual purposes.
• Challenges in ministry can expand one’s capacities if approached with discernment.
• Mandy Smith emphasizes the importance of identifying the "true self" versus the "false self" in leadership roles.
• The conversation touches on navigating unknowns in ministry, where traditional methods may not be effective anymore.
• Mandy Smith discusses her routine of daily prayer for guidance, especially during challenging times in ministry.
• Prayer serves as a crucial aspect of leadership, connecting leaders to God's guidance and renewal.
• Markus Watson refers to the insights from Mandy’s book, The Vulnerable Pastor, underscoring the value of vulnerability in leadership.
• Mandy Smith talks about the urgency felt due to declining church attendance, stressing a deeper reliance on prayer.
• Personal and communal desperation in the church can lead to spiritual growth and greater reliance on God.
• Mandy Smith explores the concept of "confession" as turning towards God, involving acknowledgment of thoughts and reaffirmation of faith.
• Shifting from secular professionalism to Christian leadership reliance on God, Mandy Smith critiques the application of secular standards within church contexts.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• Mandy Smith:
  • www.thewayistheway.org
  • Instagram - @mandysmithhopes
  • The Eugene Peterson Center for Christian Imagination
• Books mentioned:
  • Confessions of an Amateur Saint, by Mandy Smith
  • The Vulnerable Pastor, by Mandy Smith
• Related episodes:
  • 36. The Vulnerable Pastor, with Mandy Smith
  • 107. Childlike Faith, Adultlike Leadership, with Mandy Smith
  • 194. Saudade, Leadership, and Nurturing the Inner Life, with Jeff Crosby

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger engage in an enlightening conversation exploring a profound quote by Efrem Smith on the evolving narrative of church communities. They discuss the critical role of the emerging generation in not just being part of the church's story, but actively shaping its future. The episode explores the importance of diverse perspectives, adaptive leadership, and the humility required to foster a truly inclusive and vibrant faith community.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Efrem Smith in Ep 222, Building a Multi-Inlusive Church:

“As the story of your church unfolds, is it obvious that the emerging generation is not only part of the story, but part of shaping the story that will be told?”


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Ministry leaders engage future generations by including their voices at the decision-making table.
• Tod Bolsinger emphasizes the necessity for leaders to adopt a humble approach and be open to learning.
• Markus Watson stresses the importance of diverse perspectives for a fuller understanding of God's calling.
• Churches increase vitality by valuing spiritual maturity over age when selecting leaders.
• Tod Bolsinger encourages leaders to focus on creating processes that foster deeper understanding and growth.

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

We talk a lot about leading through uncertainty on this podcast. But in this episode, the emphasis will be on navigating uncertainty in our own lives. In this conversation, Michaela O'Donnell and Lisa Slayton, co-authors of Life in Flux, discuss the importance of "uncommon postures" when navigating the fog in life, building personal adaptive capacity, and the need to pause and listen in the midst of uncertainty.


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Lisa Slayton challenges default behaviors and encourages developing uncommon postures to better support oneself.
• Michaela O'Donnell emphasizes the need to embrace change rather than avoid it, recognizing that old methods won't work for future challenges.
• Slayton identifies personal awakening catalysts as recognizing potential possibilities or facing pain and disruptions.
• Adaptive work involves recognizing that past methods won't suffice for future challenges, according to Michaela O'Donnell.
• The metaphor of a ship in the fog illustrates the need for intentional stillness in uncertain times.
• Slayton describes how cutting the engine in a fog-bound boat is a counterintuitive but necessary action to regain direction.
• Markus Watson reflects on personal experiences with uncertainty, realizing challenges can be embraced even when they are "unfigureoutable."
• Slayton shares an experience with a church team and stresses the importance of exploration and adaptation.
• Navigating ambiguity involves recognizing multiple paths forward, not just one clear solution, notes Michaela O'Donnell.
• Leadership should shift from problem-solving to curiosity, embracing uncertainty and adaptive learning.
• Markus Watson discusses the clarity of identity in understanding personal strengths and aligning roles accordingly.
• The Enneagram aids in understanding personal and leadership styles amidst change, recognizing strengths and limits.
• Lisa Slayton emphasizes the challenges pastors face due to excessive expectations and the need for managing these effectively.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• Church Leadership Institute
• De Pree Center for Leadership
• Tamim Partners
• LifeinFlux.co
• Flourish San Diego
• Books mentioned:
  • Life in Flux, by Michaela O’Donnell and Lisa Slayton
• Related Episodes:
  • Episode 114: Meaningful Work, with Michaela O’Donnell
  • Episode 48: Integrity and Coherence in Leadership, with Lisa Slayton

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

Markus Watson chats with Tod Bolsinger about a profound quote from Gayle Beebe, President of Westmont College. They explore the significance of staying emotionally present with your organization, its people, and its mission, especially during crises. The conversation highlights the balance between gaining perspective ('balcony' view) and staying connected (‘dance floor’ engagement), essential for fostering trust and effective leadership. Perfect for those navigating the complexities of ministry leadership.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Gayle Beebe in Ep 220, Leading Through Tragedy, Adversity, and Crisis:

"You have to stay emotionally present to the organization, to the people in the organization, to the mission of the organization so that you can make adjustments that actually allow you to prevail."


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Ministry leaders must stay emotionally present to effectively lead organizations through crises.
• Gayle Beebe emphasizes the importance of connecting with the mission and people of the organization.
• Leaders need to balance the perspectives of the balcony (overall strategy) and the dance floor (emotional connection).
• Building trust through emotional attunement accelerates change within an organization.
• Leaders must acknowledge and manage their own emotions to make mission-focused decisions.

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

How do we cultivate an environment where transparency and open communication becomes the norm rather than the exception?

In this episode, Uli Chi, author of The Wise Leader, brings a wealth of experience in business and church leadership to discuss how we can foster open communication, why humility in leadership is so critical, and the importance of pursuing a "wisdom from above" in our leadership.


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Wisdom from above is God's wisdom, a comprehensive approach to life that is beyond just spiritual or intellectual understanding.
• Uli Chi emphasizes the importance of creating a culture where honesty is welcomed, allowing team members to express their true thoughts to leadership.
• Uli shares a personal experience where he sought external consultants to understand issues within his company, highlighting the difficulty in getting people to speak candidly.
• Leaders must create normalized spaces for open and honest conversations.
• Wisdom requires a communal approach; it is developed through relationships and shared experiences rather than in isolation.
• Uli Chi discusses his 50-year affiliation with his community, emphasizing the value of long-term relationships.
• Markus Watson expresses admiration for Uli Chi's book, "The Wise Leader," and encourages reading it for insights on becoming a wise leader.
• Uli Chi underscores humility as fundamental to wise leadership, viewing leadership as a role of service, not dominance.
• Humility involves using power for the benefit of others, reflecting a servant mindset preached by Jesus.
• Leaders must recognize human finiteness and fallibility, accepting that they don't know everything and can be wrong.
• Directive leadership involves knowing when to give directions after gathering input, which is often essential in pastoral roles.
• Uli Chi criticizes "heroic leadership" that elevates leaders to a godlike status, as it can stifle open communication and genuine feedback.
• Effective leaders create safe spaces for diverse voices, reflecting the model of shared wisdom.
• Uli Chi values contrarian voices and finds it beneficial to have people, like his wife, who challenge his ideas, enhancing decision-making and leadership effectiveness.
• Uli Chi concludes that understanding and knowing something truly requires loving it, aligning with the concept of the epistemology of love.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• Uli Chi:
  • De Pree Center for Leadership
• Books mentioned:
  • The Wise Leader, by Uli Chi
• Related episodes:
  • 46. Inviting the Real, with Esther Lightcap Meek
  • 58. Communion with Reality, with Esther Lightcap Meek

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss the immense pressures faced by pastors today, as articulated by Tim Alberta. Tim highlighted how congregants increasingly expect pastors to function beyond their traditional roles, turning them into part-time pundits and cultural commentators on a myriad of contentious issues ranging from masking and vaccines to abortion and trans rights. Markus and Tod examine the challenges this poses, especially during heightened political seasons, and explore strategies for pastors to manage these pressures healthily, emphasizing the importance of honesty, mission focus, and relational support.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Tim Alberta in Ep 234, Political Power and American Evangelicalism:

"What I kept coming back to was this immense pressure on pastors to be more than a pastor. In other words, their congregants in so many cases are looking to them in this moment saying, 'Okay. So, what about masking? What about the vaccine? What about the trans issue? What about abortion? What about, I mean, about everything.'... They start to view their pastor as sort of a part-time pastor, but also a kind of part-time pundit, a part-time cultural commentator, part-time prognosticator of world events."


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Pastors face immense pressure to address a wide range of social and political issues.
• Congregants often expect pastors to act as experts beyond their theological training.
• Effective leadership includes honestly admitting when answers are unclear.
• Addressing political tensions in congregations requires a commitment to the mission of following Jesus.
• Building strong relationships and seeking support helps pastors navigate crises and maintain integrity.

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

Is it possible to lead a congregation without being consumed by anxiety and stress? How can we as ministry leaders manage the pressures and expectations we carry while maintaining a sense of peace and lightness?

In this episode, Alan Fadling, author of A Non-Anxious Life, unpacks how ministry leaders can navigate anxiety by creating a supportive network of friends and mentors, understanding God’s joyful nature, and how these realities can transform our personal life and pastoral leadership.


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Alan Fadling advises not bringing personal anxiety into a congregation but sharing it with friends, mentors, therapists, and spiritual directors.
• Alan Fadling highlights that his experience with managing anxiety has been supported by people outside his immediate church community.
• Referencing Lewis Smedes' Shame and Grace, Markus Watson illustrates how acceptance from others can help people feel less anxious and more acceptable.
• Discussing his book about anxiety with a church small group, Alan Fadling emphasizes the value of having outside perspectives to reassure one's concerns.
• Understanding God's joyful nature can lead to personal transformation and fuller acceptance of grace.
• Markus Watson relates a story about providing comfort rather than judgment, illustrating how fear and anxiety are addressed in a supportive manner.
• Categorizing anxiety as a sin is unhelpful, Fadling emphasizes, especially from a pastoral perspective.
• Referencing Eugene Peterson's interpretation from Philippians 4, Alan Fadling focuses on replacing anxiety with peace through prayer.
• We should recognize God's presence in anxious moments through prayer and reflection rather than avoid anxiety.
• Inspired by Dallas Willard, Fadling shares a personal practice of using scripture to find peace amidst anxiety.
• Psalms of Lament can help engage with and express anxiety while relying on God's support.
• Journaling with honesty, as practiced by Alan Fadling, serves as a personal dialogue with God and reinforces that God cares and one is not alone.
• Fadling’s early ministry concerns included whether congregants liked him, stemming from personal insecurity.
• Discussing a "recognition deficit," Alan Fadling notes the mistake of seeking validation from congregations instead of from God.

RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:

• Alan Fadling:
  • Unhurriedliving.com
  • Unhurried Living Podcast
• Books mentioned:
  • A Non-Anxious Life, by Alan Fadling
  • The Wounded Healer, by Henri Nouwen
  • Shame and Grace, by Lewis Smedes
  • Emotionally Healthy Spirituality, by Lewis Smedes
• Related Episodes:
  • The Healing Power of Pilgrimage, with Jon Huckins
  • Saudade, Leadership, and Nurturing the Inner Life, with Jeff Crosby

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I’d love to know what you're thinking!

Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger discuss the importance of framing for church leaders, particularly in the context of political polarization. Drawing on a quote from Andrew Hanauer, they explore how providing a Biblical framework to congregants can shape their understanding of the world and mitigate the influence of external, often divisive, narratives. Through practical advice and insightful examples, they illustrate how asking the right questions can lead to transformative perspectives grounded in faith.

Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Andrew Hanauer in Ep 226, Tackling Toxic Polarization in Your Church:

"If you don't help your congregants have a framework for understanding the world around them, they will get that framework from somewhere else."


THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:

• Ministry leaders can frame questions to help congregants see the world through the eyes of Jesus.
• Leaders should encourage their congregants to develop a biblical framework for understanding the world.
• Leaders should prompt curiosity through questions instead of giving lectures.
• Leaders can use personal stories to help congregants empathize and rethink their preconceived notions.
• Congregants will find alternative, potentially harmful frameworks if leaders do not provide a biblical one.

Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!