Things we learn in this episode: Kenji has a not-so-secret secret ingredient for can’t-miss pie crust, Deb is not allowed at Thanksgiving without her pie, the birthplace of Kenji’s love of junk food, the ideal baking apple, why American apple pie reigns supreme.

Radiotopia's fall fundraiser is happening now! Visit radiotopia.fm/donate.

Deb and Kenji are taking a break this week. Please enjoy this classic episode from Home Cooking, our fellow Radiotopia show about food.

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According to our callers, a big part of Thanksgiving seems to be making food for your loved ones that you only kind of like yourself. But can we make these dishes a little better for the people cooking them?! We’re gonna try. Plus, Demi Adejuyigbe (@electrolemon), tells about his quarantine baking adventures.

For recipes, transcripts, and more, visit homecooking.show/12.

Kenji and Deb are major, MAJOR fans of popcorn — “God’s gift to snacking” (two guesses who said that). One might actually call them a miracle of science. How does a hard af, yellow pebble turn into a fluffy white edible cloud? How does movie popcorn butter smell so heavenly without any butter? This is Popcornology 101, class is now in session.

Kids say the darndest things, and so do Deb and Kenji. “Nobody likes penne.” “Chiffonade is pretentious.” “I have honestly no idea what my recipe contains.” And they’re not the only ones. There are people out there who call baked ziti — get this — lasagna.

While baked ziti may be universally loved as a workhorse of catered buffets, potlucks, and meal trains, Deb and Kenji’s takes on the dish are worlds apart.

In this episode, Deb and Kenji stop being polite and start getting real. Turns out, they weren’t born with encyclopedic knowledge of food; before each recording session, they consult…Wikipedia. (Stars, they’re just like us.)

You may think of Caesar salad as the most ubiquitous of American salads. In fact, Caesar salad was invented in Mexico. However, it was invented by an American for Americans coming across the border to drink during Prohibition. Come to think of it, that may just be the most American thing ever. Also in this episode: the secret behind Worcestershire sauce and a hack for a quick Caesar dressing. Fax, no printer.

Deb: “This is the perfect sandwich.” Kenji: “This is my favorite sandwich of all time.” In fact, Kenji has gone way beyond just admiring and ingesting the Bacon-Lettuce-Tomato; as Isaac Newton captured the physical world with his laws of motion, Kenji has bestowed us with the 11 rules of the BLT. Deb has made her own significant contributions to the field of sandwich science, with the theory of seasonal variation of the summer BLT and "off-season" BLT.

Kenji and Deb will be back September 9 with all new episodes. Watch this space!

Kenji has many pans going on the fire at all times, one of which was directing this year’s Community Curated Series for Seattle Arts & Lectures. In January 2024, he invited his future podcast bestie Deb onstage with him to chop it up about recipe development (and theft!), family, and greasy bags of Dick’s.

Thanks to Alison Stagner and Woogee Bae of Seattle Arts & Lectures for their help.