In this episode Jesse interviews Desmond about his upgrading practices to stop using grades to have power over students but create a classroom culture increase learning through enriching classroom experiences. Desmond talks about the joyful mess of this process and in this short bonus episode there are many gems. So many gems we had to contemplate in silence and not lay down our usual freestyle at the end. Ha. Enjoy!

03:02 Desmond "We want there to be an objective measurement of learning, however when you start diving deep into what learning is... the learning experience is inherently a personal one. And there is no real way for me to know actually know what a student has learned. I know what they choose to show, I know what they choose to do.... and I can make a judgement that they've learned something based on that. But the actual experience of them learning and internalizing that connection is ultimately theirs.

04:36 Desmond "I noticed I was holding back creative ideas and insights that could really make a difference for students because I wasn't going to grade it. If I'm not going to grade it then what is the incentive for them to do it? I'm giving them less than my best creative thinking because I'm trying to manage my work load of all I'm trying to do. Then when I did my little tricks of like alright I'm going to make you think I'm grading this even when I'm just grading a small piece of this... it didn't feel right.

05:36- Desmond "It got to the point where I'm like alright, I'm not doing my best work and I'm not liking the dynamics it creates amongst students with myself. And I also don't like the effect it creates on students."

06:22- Desmond "I would create a system where I would try to promote action and thought from my students. As long as I had the power to evaluate their work and have real outcomes for them, they were trying to figure out the cheat code to get the A and not actually learn."

06:45- Jesse "What I hear you saying is that grading was preventing a depth of learning. For genius to awaken, to get into the meat of learning, was prevented by grading."

07:00- Desmond- "I want to be very clear when I say grading, I mean when you get a whole bunch of assignments ini,ts when the only feedback your giving is a number. They can't do anything about that. There is a lot of work of being done to put the check marks into the system...and the feedback on the paper is greatly ignored because students are conditioned to only look for the grade."

07:54- Jesse "How would you describe upgrading for our listeners?"

8:00-9:26 Desmond answers the question...

08:25- Desmond the feedback you give is specific to what you see in the work... talk to me about your process... learn through the mistake... mistakes are necessary for learning...

09:25- Jesse "In your class how is this process facilitated?"

09:34 Desmond- "For me, I'm okay with the messiness.... There is what I'm actually doing and there is what I want to change as I get further along in the process of it... A lot of self reflection, the grade comes from students, we do self evaluation. Students assign themselves a grade based on the work they've done, what I'm calling the process portfolio... I would rather document that they are engaged in the class and thinking...

12:23- Desmond "The accountability comes in through frequent reflection... I give them guided reflections to probe them deep into their self awareness."

13:47- Des- I have a process where students post questions to a service called Packback. Which focuses on inquiry. Shoutout to Packback. They post one question and respond to two. Thats minimum. I say minimum is average and average a C. 'your still using that grading language?' A little bit because they are still in it.

14:33- Desmond "We've trained them with escapism; the game they (students) are playing is what is the least I need to do to get the maximum...