Sometimes there’s a fine line between “disruptive innovation” and “copyright violation.”

Today’s guest pushed pretty hard on that line.

Ariel Diaz is a serial entrepreneur who has co-founded companies in video education, B2B SaaS, and Health and Wellness. But he joined us to discuss his digital textbook company, Boundless Learning, which was at the center of a firestorm about copyright in the early 2010s.

Boundless Learning built a business that undercut the college textbook market by providing open source equivalents at much lower prices. They were sued by three major textbook publishers in a case that had the potential to reshape the interpretation of US copyright law through a court decision.

The publishers’ side of this story is widely available online and we recommend reading those links in the episode notes to round out your opinion of what happened. Our purpose at Ways We Learn is not to present Ariel’s view as fact, or to choose sides.

But today you get a very special Ways We Learn, Legal Edition: Boundless’ CEO, Ariel Diaz, shares his side of the story.

Contents:

• 04:35 The Genesis of Boundless Learning
• 07:04 Building the First Prototype
• 10:19 Challenges and Reactions
• 13:04 Marketing Strategy and Legal Issues
• 24:40 The Lawsuit
• 27:43 Copyright and Trademark Disputes
• 30:37 Settlement
• 37:50 Evolution
• 42:56 Acquisition
• 44:23 Legacy and Impact on the Textbook Market

Links and further reading:

• Ariel’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arieldiaz/
• Chart of textbook prices: https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/chart-of-the-day-or-century-5/

Links and further reading:

• Ariel’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arieldiaz/
• Chart of textbook prices: https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/chart-of-the-day-or-century-5/
• The complaint: https://www.insidehighered.com/sites/default/files/files/boundlesslearninglawsuit.pdf
• Motion to dismiss: https://casetext.com/case/pearson-educ-inc-v-boundless-learning-inc
• Docket report: https://dockets.justia.com/docket/new-york/nysdce/1:2012cv01986/393501
• Publishers Sue As Boundless Learning Grabs $8M (TechCrunch): https://techcrunch.com/2012/04/05/publishers-sue-as-boundless-nabs-8m/
• 4 Thoughts About Boundless, Publishers, and the Lawsuit (Inside Higher Ed): https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/technology-and-learning/4-thoughts-about-boundless-publishers-and-lawsuit

I've spent years in the field of ed tech. Along the way, I became disappointed by a lot of what I saw.

There has been way too much “shiny new object syndrome,” and way too little of the actual learning transformation that it promised. Starting with blackboards, then whiteboards, then radio, then film strips, then TV, then calculators, then computers, then many other EdTech things – they all promise transformative learning, but they don't always deliver.

So my question: is AI going to be different?

Thankfully, Steve Midgley and Whitney Whealdon have some answers!

Steve is the Founder and Managing Director of Learning Tapestry, and Whitney is the Director of Learning Innovation. Steve served as the Deputy Director of Educational Technology for Arne Duncan at the U. S. Department of Education and the Director of Education at the FCC. Whitney has worked in education for over 20 years, including 10 years at the Louisiana Department of Education, and led the creation of the ELA Guidebooks, which is an English language arts curriculum used in over 80 percent of Louisiana districts and other states nationwide.

Both of these folks really know education, and they’re perfect guests for my big question today: how do the affordances of AI lead to truly transformative learning?

Contents:

• 01:00 The Evolution and Challenges of EdTech
• 02:23 Learning Tapestry’s Purpose
• 03:43 Steve's Background and Vision
• 04:47 Whitney's Perspective on EdTech
• 10:46 AI's Potential in Education
• 21:08 AI in the Classroom
• 39:23 Academic Integrity
• 41:05 Practical AI for Teachers
• 43:52 AI as a Collaborative Partner
• 53:40 Quality Assurance in AI-Driven Learning
• 59:43 Ethical Considerations

Links and further reading:

• Learning Tapestry: https://www.learningtapestry.com

• Steve’s bio: https://www.learningtapestry.com/steve-midgley.html

• Whitney’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/whealdon/

• And here’s the knowledge-building app they described! (Remember the frog > lily lad > chlorophyll example?) Wonderwood is an infinite digital encyclopedia and interactive learning app for children ages 3-8 to build their knowledge of the world: ⁠https://wonderwood.me/⁠

• And here's the quote Steve referenced, with his intro:

  Here's a quote that is old but, for me at least, informs where our expectations need to shift to in the age of AI. The movement from computational to concept-based math is parallel to a movement from expressive to concept-based ELA - and the skills below reflect what I think are valuable to students regardless of how much support they get from AI in their schooling.

  "At school you are engaged not so much in acquiring knowledge as in making mental efforts under criticism... You go to a great school not so much for knowledge as for arts and habits; for the habit of attention, for the art of expression, for the art of assuming at a moment's notice a new intellectual position, for the art of entering quickly into another person's thoughts, for the habit of submitting to censure and refutation, for the art of indicating assent or dissent in graduated terms, for the habit of regarding minute points of accuracy, for the art of working out what is possible in a given time, for taste, for discrimination, for mental courage, and for mental soberness."

  - William Johnson Cory, 19th Century Headmaster at Eton

Think about your experience with education. What was that experience like? For many of us, organized learning was sort of like a factory. A bunch of students along for the ride, not necessarily wanting to be there, but ingesting a lot of information that was handed down by a teacher, and waiting for a big scary test at the end.

Now think about a time you've played a game. You may have found the game more enjoyable than some of your learning experiences. You’re more active in a game. You get quick feedback in a game. A game is really meant to be fun, even in that big scary test at the end.

Seth Trudeau is someone who thinks education can and should be more like games. He is the founder and managing director of Routine Chaos, where he works with companies to build transformative products through deep product discovery and rigorous product development. He's built games, simulations, and applications for learners from primary school up through postgraduate studies.

We sat down to discuss the potential benefits of gamification in education from classics like “Oregon Trail” to modern games like “Minecraft,” and the importance of creating engaging, skill-building environments in games. We talked about Pokemon tournaments and how such community-driven, game-based learning can be applied to educational contexts. And we looked at project-based and self-directed learning, and how teachers can foster meaningful motivation and interest in students.

Contents:

• 00:58 Games vs. Traditional Learning
• 02:45 The Evolution of Gamification
• 09:09 Challenges in Educational Gaming
• 11:27 Effective Educational Games Today
• 13:48 The Value of Games in Learning
• 20:18 Gamification in Professional Training
• 24:17 Leveraging LLMs for Scenario-Based Learning
• 27:42 The Pokemon Company and Education
• 36:36 Mixed-Age Communities and No Age-Based Hierarchies
• 37:07 The Pokemon Tournament Experience
• 40:36 Rethinking Traditional Education Hierarchies
• 42:43 The Role of Critical Thinking in Education
• 53:45 Conceptual Exposure in Math Education
• 58:11 Project-Based and Interest-Driven Learning
• 01:04:26 Advice for Traditional Classrooms

Links and Further Reading:

• Seth’s writing on gamification: https://routinechaos.substack.com/p/what-if-the-pokemon-company-took
• More of Seth’s thoughts: https://routinechaos.substack.com/p/a-bit-more-on-gamification
• Marc LeBlanc's 8 kinds of fun: http://algorithmancy.8kindsoffun.com
• Jesse Schell's Art of Game Design: https://schellgames.com/art-of-game-design
• The Importance of Play: https://www.routine-chaos.com/introducing-pursuit-of-play/