Religious nationalism is on the rise, both in the United States and globally. While this poses multiple challenges to justice work, it also raises theoretical questions for Christians, including the question of how Catholics should understand the relationship between church and political powers. For centuries, when monarchy was the default, Catholics argued about this. Should the pope control the king, or vice versa? Can kings appoint religious institutional leaders? What if a pope excommunicates a monarch?

Somewhere along the line, a political idea called integralism developed. Integralism proposes a much closer relationship between political and religious authorities than most Americans are comfortable with. But despite our longstanding embrace of the separation of church and state, this seemingly obscure idea has entered our public discourse, associated with some right-wing influencers and political figures—including Vice President-Elect JD Vance.

So what is integralism? Is it the same as nationalism, and does it threaten our constitutional ideas about religious liberty? On this episode of the podcast, scholar Nicholas Hayes-Mota talks to the hosts about what integralism is and how it relates to the current political climate.

Hayes-Mota is a social ethicist and public theologian whose research interests include the theology of community organizing, Catholic social thought, contemporary virtue ethics, democratic theory, and AI ethics. He is a professor in the Department of Religious Studies at Santa Clara University’s College of Arts and Sciences.

You can learn more about this topic and read some of Hayes-Mota’s work in these links.

“What is Catholic integralism?”
By Steven P. Millies
https://uscatholic.org/articles/201910/what-is-catholic-integralism/

“The Integralist Argument Is Wrong, Even If You’re Catholic”
By Kevin Augustyn
https://www.discoursemagazine.com/p/the-integralist-argument-is-wrong-even-if-youre-catholic

“The strange world of Catholic 'integralism'—and Christian nationalism”
By Jack Jenkins
https://www.ncronline.org/news/strange-world-catholic-integralism-and-christian-nationalism

“The not-so-Catholic candidacy of J. D. Vance”
By Jason L. Miller and Rebecca Bratten Weiss
https://uscatholic.org/articles/202407/the-not-so-catholic-candidacy-of-j-d-vance/

“Faith at the expense of freedom”
By Rebecca Bratten Weiss
https://www.christiancentury.org/features/faith-expense-freedom

“We need to reclaim the legacy of Christian nonviolence”
By Nicholas Hayes-Mota
https://uscatholic.org/articles/202405/we-need-to-reclaim-the-legacy-of-christian-nonviolence/

Glad You Asked is sponsored by the Claretian Missionaries USA, an order of Catholic priests and brothers who live and work with the most vulnerable among us. To learn more, visit claretians.org.