In the second episode of The Postmaterialist Podcast, host Ilya Sogolov sits down with writer and philosopher Stefan Heidenreich for a thought-provoking discussion about the potential for a society without money.

They sit inside a pod in a library, which alongside a defective microphone cable makes the conversation sound a bit like it was on the phone. However, with a bit of post-production actions, this effect is not as bad now.

Building on the ideas presented in Episode 1 with Jonathan Gan-Mor of The Venus Project, this episode explores the challenges and possibilities of a post-monetary world. Heidenreich, with his background in philosophy, media theory, and economics, offers a unique perspective on how our current economic system shapes behavior and creates artificial scarcity. Heidenreich offers a conceptual way forward and in fact says that a replacement of money by artificial intelligence is unavoidable at some point in the future.

One of the central themes of the conversation revolves around the three functions of money, as outlined by Aristotle: measuring value, facilitating transactions, and storing value. Heidenreich argues as he did in the book "Geld. Für eine non-monetäre Ökonomie -Money-For a non-monetary Economy" that it is the third function - the hoarding of money - that lies at the root of many of our current societal ills.

Both Sogolov and Heidenreich agree that a significant portion of the scarcity we experience today is artificial. They discuss how a reliance on money necessitates scarcity to maintain today's economics.

The conversation then turns towards the role of technology, specifically artificial intelligence (AI), in potentially facilitating a transition to a post-money society. Heidenreich envisions a future where advanced data analysis and AI could create an efficient system for distributing resources and managing an economy. However, he also acknowledges the potential pitfalls of relying too heavily on technology.

Heidenreich proposes the intriguing concept of a transaction system where individual accounts are regularly reset to zero once a balance between contributions and consumption is achieved. This, he suggests, could help prevent over-accumulation while still allowing individuals to "take credit" and access resources beyond their immediate means for a limited time.

Heidenreich challenges listeners to consider alternative frameworks for understanding and organizing society – frameworks that prioritize human well-being and ecological sustainability over endless economic growth. He suggests that by shifting our perspective and embracing new ways of thinking, we can begin to envision and create a future where money no longer dictates the terms of our existence.

This episode offers a dense and multifaceted exploration of a complex topic. It encourages listeners to question their assumptions about the world and to engage in critical thinking about the potential for a post-money future.

This episode may leave the listeners (as it left the Postmaterialist host) with a need to read and learn more about, philosophy. economy, and above all human behavior. The latter topic is a growing gap in the knowledge needed for system change. So If you happen to know experts in human behavior, feel free to contact the Postmaterialist podcast.

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