Welcome to YourForest Podcast, where we dive into conversations on environmental science, sustainability, and the intrinsic values of forests.

In this episode, host Matthew Kristoff speaks with Mark Anielski, a forest economist and well-being expert, to explore the economic principles of nature and how forest ecosystems offer a sustainable model for an economy in harmony with natural values.

Together, they delve into the challenges and benefits of valuing forests beyond traditional timber revenue, considering biodiversity, water resources, and the “wealth” that forests provide.

Key Takeaways

Beyond Profit: Economic models that focus solely on GDP growth ignore essential ecosystem services. Mark highlights why a balanced approach that includes natural services can create a more resilient economy.
Reframing Wealth: Wealth originally meant “well-being,” a concept that aligns with sustainable practices. Mark suggests considering how we define wealth to integrate environmental values.
Strategic Investments in Nature: Investing in ecosystem restoration, such as wetlands and pollinator services, yields significant long-term returns, reducing healthcare costs and supporting biodiversity.

Quotes:

“Forest ecosystems are the model for the economy because they're always moving towards a homeostasis homeostatic condition. There's always perturbations. There's fire, right? There's and there's are human impacts.” - Mark Anielski

“we're not counting is the degradation of the watershed and the services that we just take for granted and we don't monetize them, we don't even account for them.” - Mark Anielski

“It's a lie that money is scarce. It's not scarce. We we have been educated to believe it. Scarce well. And we spend our lives anxious about how are we going to pay for whatever the mortgage.” - Mark Anielski

Take away with complete timestamps:

[00:05:45] Background of Mark and his interest in Forest management
[00:09:14] Redefining Economy and Wealth through Nature's Lens
[00:16:34] Critiquing GDP and Embracing Nature’s Accounting Principles
[00:21:35] Challenging the GDP and Rethinking Economic Models
[00:31:40] The Value of Ecological Services vs. Economic Depreciation in Forest Management
[00:39:38] The Overlooked Value of Indigenous Knowledge in Healthcare and Environmental Restoration
[00:58:27] Understanding Reinsurance and its Role in Risk Management
[01:03:03] The Shared Responsibility of Sustainable Forestry

Sponsors

West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/

Resources

Mark Anielski’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-anielski-8b581325/
Mark’s Website: https://anielski.com/

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Do you want to support healthy ecosystems, and create a legacy that can last? Me too. Start with your lawn, then your community, then see how you feel. Basil Camu is an expert in local rewilding and today he is here to share his passion for natural ecosystems and how you can create a bounding oasis of local biodiversity literally in your back yard! Think native! Flowers, grasses, forbs, shrubs, trees, everything helps!

I often get so wound up in forests and how we manage them that I forget that my yard, and community, can be a place for nature as well. I am now officially growing trees in my back yard with the intention of rewilding my property, and hopefully sharing that passion with others.

Resources

Leaf & Limb

From Wasteland to Wonder

Sponsors

West Fraser

GreenLink Forestry Inc.

Quotes

12.35 - 12.43: “I think humans are a part of this planet, we are all interconnected. There has been a huge disconnect between humans and the rest of life.”

Takeaways

“I love trees” (09.13)

Basil’s love for ecosystems is reflected in his book, From Wasteland to Wonder. He believes that humans are a part of the planet and should not be separated from nature.

Soil = life + sand + silt + clay (20.45)

Basil explains how plants have been converting the sun’s energy into usable formats for millions of years, causing life to move from the oceans onto land and support all life above ground and under the soil.

A tree is a 3D printer of life (23.10)

Basil thinks of soil as a sponge, which holds water, thereby preventing flooding and enabling photosynthesis. He thinks of trees as pumps that feed the terrestrial planet and sequester carbon.

Is the grass greener? (37.40)

Basil points out that grass is the #1 crop grown in the USA but 10% or fewer Americans spend time in their yard. He highlights the need to work with natural systems instead of against them.

A global water crisis (40.10)

Basil calculates that by enabling photosynthesis and protecting the soil, you will do 75% of the things you can to address biodiversity.

“The best place to start is planting trees” (42.34)

Basil suggests people plant native trees. He suggests using chicken wire when planting native trees so they can grow protected.

Life for life’s sake (49.17)

A native plant can support most life, participate in the local ecosystem and sequester carbon from the atmosphere.

Nothing leaves the yard (59.19)

Soil can be fed with any organic matter - fallen leaves, woodchips, etc. Basil recommends using compost instead of fertilizers since fertilizers have a massive carbon footprint.

Self-sustaining meadows (1.09.24)

Basil speaks about using glyphosate to remove vegetation and create a native meadow for ecological restoration. He recommends sowing a seed blend or flower seeds during winter.

Grow your own meadow (1.14.56)

Basil recommends planting butterfly milkweeds to help monarch butterflies on their flight path. He also suggests planting a few saplings to create a pocket forest and putting up educational signs.

A forest in your pocket (1.21.06)

Basil suggests using oak and hickory trees which have higher ecological value, feed more species of life and have understory species and shrub layers.

Project Pando (1.26.47)

Project Pando, the non-profit arm of Leaf & Limb, engages a community to collect seeds from native trees and shrubs and get them processed and planted through volunteers. Working with trees helps strengthen the bond and connection for people to see themselves as a part

If you are looking for inspiration, look no further than the story Percy Guichon was willing to share with us. Through hardship and discrimination, pain and suffering, a few First Nations were able to create thriving communities out of hard work and ingenuity. Percy came on the show to share his personal story, but also that of his Nation and the success they have had building forestry enterprises that look out for land and give back to community. Reconciliation takes lots of forms, Percy’s story is about collaboration and thinking outside the box.

Resources

Percy Guichon

The residential school Percy attended as a child was purchased by Williams Lake First Nations to help honour their ancestors:

Article: St. Joseph's Mission residential school site should be 'a place of healing'

Central Chilcotlin Rehabilitation Ltd.

Sponsors

West Fraser

GreenLink Forestry Inc.

Quotes

20.46 - 20.54: “I think… the start of… reconciliation is just by acknowledging those… past harms and what it did to our people.”
Takeaways

Traditional territory (4.44)

Percy is a member and Councillor of Tŝideldel First Nation in the interior of British Columbia. He is grateful to be one of the few of his generation to speak his native language.

Knowledge and experience (8.40)

The conditions of First Nations members during his childhood were some of the reasons that inspired Percy to run for Chief many years later, where he served for 6 years.

Indigenous consultation (12.21)

Percy’s earliest memories are of living on the land with the other animals that occupy it, including its waters. That laid the seed of his interest in forestry through high school.

Truth and reconciliation (19.49)

Reconciliation efforts are taking place across Canada to acknowledge the harms of residential schools, cultural genocide and economic marginalization. Separating children from families caused intergenerational trauma and alcoholism.

Communities building their destiny (22.41)

Percy believes it is important for institutions and systems to work with Indigenous people to remove barriers to meaningful long-term employment and empower communities.

Reconciliation and forestry (26.17)

First Nations communities have formed forestry companies and created development corporations. They are also being consulted by the Ministry of Forestry.

The trauma of residential schools (30.55)

Percy went to residential school at age 7 with his siblings and cousins. The impacts on his community, his culture, his friends, his family, and his sense of self were devastating.

Leave a lasting legacy (47.29)

Central Chilcotin Rehabilitation (CCR) focuses on cleaning up the mountain pine beetle-infested areas. First Nations communities need to be involved in the forest industry for sustainability.

From companies to communities (55.28)

Percy rejoices in the transfer of forest licenses from companies to communities. This helps distribute the responsibilities between conservation officers and community members.

Honouring agreements (1.04.45)

Percy shares the stories of how different First Nations have built agreements with the government, similar to how they created treaties.

Strengthening the culture (1.10.53)

Percy speaks about the supreme court decision demarcated title land area, how the BC government exonerated chiefs and the tripartite framework agreement.

Healthy and happy communities (1.19.25)

Percy believes that communities must have forest licenses so they can benefit from them. Elders still carry out traditional practices like berry picking and collecting medicinal plants.

Building relationships (1.27.30)

Percy looks forward to building relationships with other First Nations neighbours, sharing best practices and exchanging expertise and resources to create future-forward sustainable projects.

Allyship in action (1.34.14)

It is important to be respectful of the communities, address land rights, create revenue-sharing agreements and help the communities grow.

Resources

Max Nova

Sponsors

West Fraser

GreenLink Forestry Inc.

Quotes

06.17 - 06.22: “Forests are valuable for more than just what you can cut down and roll out of the forest.”

Takeaways

“Private landowners are where the climate economy and land management happen” (05.31)

Max is the co-founder and COO of NCX, which began 14 years ago with his undergrad friend to help landowners understand the value of forests and measure and pay for the values they provide.

Discover the true value of your land (09.35)

Max shares that landowners can participate in many public and private programs to help cover the cost of planting trees, protect wildlife habitat and maybe even get paid for carbon credits. NCX helps landowners access nature-positive assets and develop new revenue streams for their property.

Money is not everything (13.20)

While financial returns from the land are important to maintain the land, most landowners rank ROI lower than being out in nature, leaving a legacy for their children, and connecting with wildlife.

“Nature never stands still” (20.30)

Max elaborates on the different programs available for different categories of land use across different geographies, with varied terms of payment. He emphasizes that landowners should understand the timings, risks and rewards of each, given the ever-evolving nature of the forest.

The conundrum of net zero emissions (24.56)

Max explains that many large corporations are working towards net zero emissions by reducing emissions or buying carbon offsets by a certain date in the future. However, the change made by these declarations is debatable as many corporations are coming up on their goal date, causing many to not commit to net zero goals.

Balance trade offs against your values and objectives (31.54)

Max explains the concepts of baseline and additionality in carbon credits, where one needs to be mindful of how purchasing carbon credits can reduce carbon in the atmosphere. Natural regeneration is a more accepted and supported option.

Everyone wants a healthier planet (46.14)

NCX’s vision is a world where landowners own land that is fully and fairly valued for all nature-positive benefits it is providing. He believes that everyone wants less carbon in the atmosphere, more wildlife, and healthier soil.

“Perfection is impossible” (49.17)

Max shares the different kinds of programs that support natural regeneration, where the best fit for landowners will depend on their preferences. TMax believes that having a humble learning mindset instead of a critical approach will help navigate complex forest dynamics.

“Keep your head on a swivel” (1.08.08)

NCX works on laying the foundations of research and education to prepare for a future when fiscal responsibilities of different forest values have been fairly distributed by the powers that be. If you are a landowner, visit the NCX website to get a free initial assessment of your options.

Wildfire has always been here, and humans have always had a relationship with it. These days, we have recognized that our relationship to fire has been less than ideal. Wildfire smoke has consumed our summers, wildfire threat has persisted in our minds, and there seems to be no end in sight. So, how do we begin to change our relationship to fire? How do we go from surviving it, to thriving with it? The knowledge exists, the solutions are there, how do we make it happen? Transformational change is hard.

Resources

Lori Daniels

Sponsors

West Fraser

GreenLink Forestry Inc.

Quotes

23.23 - 23.34: “Trees are really amazing; trees will colonize till they establish and grow and persist in any space where the seedling can arrive and be given an opportunity to survive.”

Takeaways

The more awareness, the better (4.53)

Lori highlights the importance of fire safety awareness and training, since “almost half of the fires in Canada are started by people”.

The Centre for Wildfire Coexistence (10.34)

The Centre for Wildfire Coexistence at the Faculty of Forestry at the University of British Columbia looks at the recovery of ecosystems and communities in BC.

What tree rings tell us (12.54)

Lori’s research takes place at the Tree Ring Lab at UBC, processing samples from the forest to understand how historical fire regimes functioned across a range of ecosystems.

Historical fires (15.45)

Tree rings provide some quantitative metrics that demonstrate Indigenous knowledge of the fire intervals and their impacts on the ecosystems where the fires burned.

Viewing fire as bad (20.03)

Lori points out that European settlers made it illegal for Indigenous people to practice cultural burning, creating “an abrupt change in the way that fire functioned in the ecosystem”.

The fire deficit (21.49)

Lori shares that cultural burning maintains heterogeneity and variability of forests and diversity of ecosystems essential to maintaining biodiversity in BC.

The fire suppression paradox (26.21)

Reintroducing fire as proactive mitigation is important in forests where the fire regime has been disrupted and fuel has accumulated, putting communities and other values in danger.

Wildfire behaviour (27.58)

Lori lists three critical factors that control wildfire behaviour and effects - the interactions between weather and topography, the intensity of the fires, and the fuels.

A challenging situation (38.13)

Concerns about smoke stopped prescribed burns that provided the benefits of surface fires, leading to the accumulation of fuel and high-intensity fires.

Local capacity building (54.47)

Lori’s advice is to empower BC’s 154 municipalities, and 204 Indigenous communities through funding and education to execute their wildfire resilience plans.

Mitigation is like insurance (1.03.04)

Climate change dictates more such fires in the future, predicting rising costs of firefighting and medicines for the vulnerable, and damage to homes, farmlands, water supply and habitats.

Cognitive dissonance (1.19.34)

Lori hopes that the provincial legislature will understand the importance of contributing funds in order to make changes in policies and practices that will govern forest management.

Be fire smart (1.26.21)

Investing in fire-proofing one’s home and understanding how fuel treatments and prescribed burning can help are steps to take toward changing fire behaviour to reduce wildfire risk.

Win-win situation (1.33.26)

Some First Nations use the biomass they remove from the forests around their community to create heat energy that supports their medical center and offices.