Today's guest is Pat Kua! Pat is a professional engineering and leadership coach with more than 20 years of experience in tech. He was CTO of N26 and principal consultant at ThoughtWorks. He is an accomplished speaker and writes an awesome newsletter for tech leaders called Level Up. With Pat, we talked about his journey in tech, from Australia to London to Berlin. We talked about the future of engineering management and technical leadership and the ever controversial founder mode. Here is what we talked about: (02:17) Introduction (03:05) Pat's journey in tech (12:17) Engineering management evolution (18:27) Balancing people and tech management (21:55) The paybacks of a good management (25:25) System thinking in people's management (28:39) Finding the balance in hybrid roles (31:52) The foundation skill (37:42) About Paul Graham's essay (45:22) The maker vs multiplier framework (48:15) The evolution of practices in tech — This episode is brought to you by https://sleuth.io — You can also find this at: - 📬 Newsletter: https://refactoring.fm - 🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7Luds9dmzZDoDC8Q7EMbSw - 📱 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/refactoring-podcast/id1719137305 — For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, or appearing as a guest, email: luca@refactoring.club