Brent Smart is one of the most respected marketers in the world. After spending more than 20 years in advertising, he made the rare move from agency life to become CMO of NRMA Insurance. Brent's most recent role as CMO of Telstra, Australia's largest telecommunications company, he helped transform the brand through bold, distinctive and highly effective marketing.

In this episode, Brent shares the principles behind his approach to creativity, from selling big ideas inside large organisations and drawing on academic marketing frameworks to building a culture where great work can thrive. We discuss the campaigns that defined his career, including Telstra's viral "Better on a Better Network" campaign, why humour and surprise remain powerful competitive advantages, and the unique agency model that helped Telstra consistently produce standout work.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:03 - Why Brent left Telstra
02:31 - Why Brent moved in house after 20 years agency side
05:41 - How to sell a creative idea into a big organisation
11:01 - The academic frameworks to create great marketing
12:16 - Why you should look at your brands heritage
14:02 - The most successful campaign Brent did for NRMA
17:33 - How Brent won a Grand Effie
21:13 - How Brent transformed Telstra’s brand marketing
26:08 - The Telstra Walk - the viral campaign
32:39 - Using humour to cut through
35:00 - The power of surprise and consistency
37:41 - The unique agency model that helped Telstra create cuthrough work
40:02 - Why craft is so important in 2026
42:44 - How to build a creative culture
47:11 - How to be a great CMO

---

Thank you to our sponsors System1 and HubSpot

Download System1's creator effectiveness report here:
https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook

Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here:
https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo

Bec Darley, CMO of Vodafone Australia, joins us to discuss what it really takes to grow a challenger brand in one of the world's toughest telecoms markets.

From competing against an entrenched duopoly to building distinctive campaigns with Ali Wong, Bec shares how Vodafone has embraced its challenger mindset rather than trying to imitate the market leaders. We explore why marketers need to understand far more than advertising, from unit economics and legal to customer experience and organisational change, and why the best marketing leaders are, ultimately, business leaders.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
00:54 - Who is Bec Darley?
03:31 - Taking on roles beyond marketing to make you a better marketer
05:38 - Why the history of duopolies in Australia makes being a challenger tough
08:53 - How does Vodafone take on the giants as a challenger
12:55 - Leaning into your disadvantage
16:01 - Vodafone’s commercials with Ali Wong
18:37 - The importance of legal for marketing
21:08 - When taking risks backfires - getting banned
24:19 - Focusing on mental availability
26:40 - Are we losing the ability to be creative while hunting efficiency
29:28 - Understanding the unit economics of the business
34:28 - How to manage a portfolio of brands
36:18 - Why you need to be customer first
38:51 - The best marketers move beyond marketing
40:24 - How to make change in a company
43:46 - Embracing discomfort and failing fast
46:23 - Bec’s advice to all young marketers

Jonathan Kerr, CMO of Auto & General, joins us to explore how one of Australia's most successful challenger brands has built sustained growth by combining strong marketing fundamentals with relentless execution.

From creating a role for himself at Auto & General to helping Budget Direct become one of the country's fastest-growing insurance brands, Jonathan shares why product should always come before growth, how marketers can take greater ownership of the 4 Ps, and what insurance consistently gets right about creativity. We also discuss the power of distinctive brand characters, audio branding, in-house creative teams and a media strategy designed to maximise long-term effectiveness.

Useful links

• This episode is brought to you by System1. Download their creator effectiveness report here: https://system1group.com/the-creator-effectiveness-playbook
• Find about more about HubSpot's AEO product here:
  https://www.hubspot.com/products/aeo

Timestamps

00:00:00 - Start
00:01:41 - How Jonathan found out about Auto and General
00:03:31 - How Jonathan created a new role for himself
00:06:58 - How to balance low price with great product
00:10:36 - Market share growth for Budget Direct
00:12:06 - Focusing on product over growth
00:13:59 - How to control more of the P’s
00:16:51 - Why does insurance produce such creative work?
00:20:52 - The power of compounding work in insurance
00:24:21 - Developing brand characters, and when to kill them off
00:30:08 - The power of audio and jingles
00:34:16 - What’s too silly to be said can be sung
00:36:13 - Why they do so much work in house
00:40:34 - Budget Direct’s unique approach to media buying
00:42:43 - How Jonathan uses AI
00:48:04 - The key challenger brand principles Jonathan has followed
00:50:59 - What makes a successful CMO?
00:52:55 - Do we need to re-educate ourselves on marketing theory?
01:00:27 - The best advice you’ve ever recieved