Greg Hahn returns to the podcast to discuss the philosophy that has made Mischief one of the most talked-about agencies in the world.

From Tubi's famous Super Bowl interruption campaign to turning around legacy brands like JCPenney, Greg explains why the biggest risk brands face today isn't failure, it's being ignored. We discuss how to create safe spaces for dangerous ideas, why AI risks making marketers more cautious, and the hidden cost of playing it safe.

Greg also shares the traits of great CMOs, the future of agencies and pitching, the campaigns he's most proud of, and the advice he'd give to the next generation of creatives.

Thanks for System1 for supporting the podcast: https://system1group.com

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:43 - Who are Mischief and what do they stand for?
04:26 - What would Greg Hahn’s walk on track be?
05:05 - How to make a safe space for dangerous ideas
07:46 - Is AI making us play it safe?
10:37 - What is the real cost of playing it safe?
14:31 - The Mischief strategy behind Tubi
16:20 - Tubi’s famous Super Bowl interruption campaign
17:20 - The reward prediction error theory
22:16 - Turning around a large legacy business like JCPenney
25:55 - The traits of a successful CMO
28:06 - The JCPenney movie trailer
30:16 - Goldfish Chilean Sea Bass campaign
35:51 - Why Greg likes George Felix as a CMO
37:09 - The work that Greg is most proud of
38:03 - What does the future of pitching look like?
40:50 - How much of Mischief’s work comes from pitching
42:13 - The future of social media
43:17 - What other agency work is Greg envious of?
45:03 - What would Greg do if he wasn’t afraid?
48:01 - What does the future creative agency look like?
49:14 - What does the future CMO role look like?
51:12 - What does Greg want to achieve next?
53:29 - Greg’s advice for young creatives
54:25 - What’s the best advice Greg Hahn has ever been given?
56:59 - What content does Greg consume? - Post chat

George Felix, CMO of Chili’s, joins us to tell the story behind one of the most impressive brand turnarounds of recent years. From iconic menu items like chips and salsa and the famous margarita to viral social media moments and creative partnerships, George explains how Chili’s became culturally relevant again and reignited growth.

Before Chili’s, George played a key role in the legendary Old Spice turnaround, and in this episode he shares the lessons he's learned from transforming legacy brands. We discuss the power of nostalgia, making the most of your agency relationships, influencing product and pricing decisions, and why the customer experience often drives more value than advertising alone.

Timestamps

00:00:00 - Start
00:02:07 - The famous Chili’s chips and salsa
00:03:39 - The famous Chili’s margharita
00:06:32 - Why Chili’s has signature items
00:08:01 - How Chili’s became one of the biggest brand turnarounds in history
00:10:51 - The importance of working with people you trust
00:12:26 - George’s role in the Old Spice turnaround
00:18:10 - How to build the case for increased brand investment
00:21:16 - The power of nostalgia for a legacy brand
00:25:57 - How George pitched an idea to his creative agency and they bought it
00:29:03 - The System1 data for the Chili’s ad
00:30:45 - Fostering a great client / agency relationship
00:38:19 - How experience drives better ROI than marketing
00:42:43 - The viral cheese pull trend
00:45:45 - How can a brand create cultural relevance?
00:48:45 - Chili’s brand collaboration with Tecovas Boots
00:51:19 - How George has influence over the Product “P” in marketing
00:54:51 - How to leverage the Pricing “P”
00:57:43 - The concept of “barbell pricing”
01:00:27 - What is the most important attribute for a successful CMO?

Rory Sutherland and Tom Goodwin return for part two of our wide-ranging conversation on the future of marketing, creativity, and business.

From driverless cars and Silicon Valley thinking, to the dangers of digitising every human interaction, Rory and Tom explore what businesses lose when efficiency becomes the only goal. They also discuss why governments need creative departments, whether we truly understand how advertising works, and how marketers can finally gain the influence they deserve inside organisations.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Start
00:56 - What will be the advertising agency of the future?
10:39 - How to change the way we think about ad agencies
15:42 - Why the government need a creative department
19:44 - Creativity isn’t dead because AI only uses data from the past
22:32 - How marketers can achieve the influence they deserve
24:08 - Do we really know how advertising works?
29:29 - Is Tesla applying marketing thinking?
31:58 - The future of driverless cars and the danger of Silicon Valley
44:03 - Human interaction vs digitising everything
47:43 - Tom and Rory’s advice for CMOs

Two of our most popular guests return for a conversation on what’s gone wrong in modern marketing and how to fix it. Rory Sutherland and Tom Goodwin tackle everything from digital overload and bad choice architecture to the disappearance of taglines, long-term thinking, and genuine creativity.

Expect behavioural science, contrarian thinking, and plenty of ideas that will make you rethink how marketing really works.

Timestamps

00:00:00 - Start
00:01:31 - Digital overload - are consumers given too much choice?
00:05:51 - The power of “Easter Egg Thinking”
00:07:54 - Have hotels destroyed choice architecture?
00:10:56 - More choice reduction failures
00:14:46 - Do consumers need more choice?
00:17:45 - How ad agencies can discover real insights
00:19:21 - An idea to revolutionise Cannes
00:20:49 - Why Rory and Tom think differently
00:24:05 - What are the biggest marketing myths today
00:30:41 - Fat tailed distribution - the Dulux Dog
00:32:18 - Why we need to bring back the tagline
00:35:17 - Are marketers too young?
00:37:15 - The long term work only pays off after you’re fired
00:42:34 - How to we make companies look more long term?
00:48:03 - Why people love Ryanair but hate BA
00:49:09 - The role of surprise in advertising
00:50:43 - Is marketing actually rather easy?
01:00:49 - Is the advertising agency model broken?

Thank you to our sponsor, System1: https://system1group.com/

Jim Olson has spent his career helping businesses navigate moments of intense pressure from corporate crises to deeply personal challenges, running comms at United Airlines and Starbucks. In this episode, the author of Tailwind shares the lessons he’s learned from leadership, resilience, and facing adversity head-on.

Drawing inspiration from Captain Sully’s Hudson River landing, Jim explains why the best crisis leaders follow the same process: aviate, navigate, communicate. We discuss where crisis management often goes wrong, what leaders can learn from failures like United Airlines, and why “black box thinking” matters in both business and marketing.

Jim also opens up about his own cancer diagnosis and the mindset that helped him through it.

Get Jim's new book, Tailwind here:
https://www.amazon.com/Tailwind-Compass-Turning-Setback-Comeback/dp/B0GXCM3VYT/

00:00 - Start
01:11 - Lessons from Captain Sully’s Hudson River landing
06:11 - The black box thinking approach to marketing
07:30 - Other crises Jim has had to deal with in his career
09:18 - When crisis management goes wrong - United Airlines
13:11 - Managing merging two cultures
15:27 - The situation when Jim’s CEO had a heart attack
18:00 - Jim’s cancer diagnosis
23:30 - The power of positive mentality
28:30 - Don’t ask yourself what if, ask yourself why not
31:34 - The power of a fourth space
34:05 - Crisis doesn’t build character, it reveals it
37:02 - Leadership lessons from Howard Schultz
38:58 - Jim’s advice for those people facing a crisis

Dan Taylor has spent over two decades at Google, helping shape how brands grow through search, media, and technology. Today, he leads global advertising at one of the world’s most influential companies, giving him a front-row seat to the biggest shifts in marketing.

In this episode, Dan shares what he’s learned from 20 years at Google, from the importance of simplicity to navigating organisational complexity and the evolving relationship between product and commercial teams. We also dive into the future of search, including AI, new tools like “Circle to Search,” and what it all means for marketers.

Timestamps

00:00 – Start
00:40 – Lessons from being a pilot
05:34 – Lessons from 20 years at Google
06:43 – How Google has changed over two decades
07:46 – The power of simplicity
09:02 – Google’s breakthrough moments
12:11 – The relationship between commercial and product
13:47 – Navigating organisational politics
17:08 – The biggest search trends in marketing
18:24 – What is “Circle to Search”?
20:37 – Opportunities for marketers in new search behaviours
24:52 – How AI is changing search
25:59 – Does Google see AI as competition?
28:09 – Will ads exist in AI search?
32:00 – How brands can improve search performance
33:42 – Making the most of Google and YouTube
35:34 – Measuring the value of brand search
39:56 – AI’s impact on creativity
45:52 – The one lesson from 20 years at Google

Zena Arnold, CMO of Sephora, joins us to break down how one of the world’s most influential beauty retailers continues to set the standard for brand, community, and culture.

From standout branding to record-breaking product launches, Zena shares what’s behind Sephora’s success and how the business stays relentlessly close to its customers in a fast-moving category. We explore the rise of celebrity brands, the power of loyalty, and how Sephora works with creators through initiatives like the Sephora Squad.

Thank you to our sponsor, System1: https://system1group.com/

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:13 - Zena’s incredible marketing career
06:02 - Lessons that turned Zena into the marketer she is today
07:41 - What has made Sephora so successful?
10:01 - Why Sephora’s branding stands out
11:30 - What’s trending in the beauty category in 2026?
13:22 - How does Sephora stay close to the customer?
14:45 - The biggest brand launch in Sephora history
15:25 - How to pitch a beauty brand to Sephora
18:00 - How important are celebrity brands?
19:03 - Helping brands launch in Sephora
21:00 - The power of Sephora’s loyalty programme
25:09 - How Sephora attract new customers
27:02 - How Sephora uses creators effectively with the Sephora Squad
29:45 - How to measure the effectiveness of creators
31:12 - The exceptional advertising of Sephora
32:49 - How Sephora uses tech in their marketing
38:09 - Dealing with the speed of retail
39:00 - Creating conditions where you can fail and learn

Rachel Thornton, Enterprise CMO at Adobe, joins us to unpack how one of the world’s leading technology companies is navigating marketing in the age of AI. From brand building in B2B to launching complex software products, Rachel shares what it takes to drive growth at global scale.

We discuss the role of major events like Adobe Summit, how AI is transforming both the practice and perception of marketing, and why community and storytelling are becoming more important than ever. Rachel also explains how Adobe balances brand and product marketing, invests in partnerships like sports sponsorships, and what “agentic orchestration” actually means in practice.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:39 - Rachel’s career and what makes a successful CMO
04:12 - The importance of brand in B2B
08:57 - The role of large events in B2B marketing (like Adobe Summit)
12:29 - The biggest changes AI have had in marketing
18:06 - How Adobe approaches community in their marketing
20:26 - How Adobe use AI in their marketing
22:53 - How Tesco use Adobe
24:22 - Adobe’s product launches at Summit 2026
26:50 - What does agentic orchestration mean?
28:33 - How to successfully launch new software?
29:58 - How Adobe addresses brand vs product marketing?
30:57 - Why Adobe invests in sports sponsorships
34:26 - The power of storytelling in sport
36:07 - The best advice Rachel has received