Suso O'Brien, former CMO of Just Eat, joins us to discuss what the role of the modern CMO really looks like. Drawing on her experience helping scale Just Eat and the findings from a new CMO survey conducted with TikTok, Suso argues that today's marketing leaders need a completely different set of priorities.

We revisit the growth of Just Eat, the success of the iconic “Did Somebody Say…” campaign, and the role celebrity partnerships and sonic branding played in building the brand. But beyond the advertising, Suso shares why CMOs spend surprisingly little time on the work itself, why internal influence matters more than ever, and why managing expectations may be more important than managing brands.

The conversation also explores the lack of marketing representation at the top of organisations, the pressures facing today's CMOs, and Suso's framework for leading people through her five Cs of great management.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
02:52 - The food delivery category in 2016
04:05 - The role marketing played in the growth of Just Eat
05:55 - Does “did somebody say?” translate globally?
07:26 - The celebrity strategy behind Just Eat
09:47 - The power of sonic branding
12:12 - What impact did the campaign have vs other growth levers for Just Eat
14:36 - CMOs rarely spend any time on the work
17:28 - The real 4 Ps of the CMO
19:06 - Discoveries from the CMO survey with TikTok
20:56 - Why the lack of marketing representation at the top of companies is worrying
22:00 - What skills are lacking in an organisation
23:08 - The short term pressure on the CMO
24:34 - How do you make the case to invest in long term
28:20 - The power of compounding creativity
29:04 - The CMO’s role is managing expectations, not brands
30:04 - Why CMO’s need to persuade internal stakeholders
36:10 - The #1 challenge CMO’s face
40:58 - Suso’s hardest challenges as Just Eat CMO
42:40 - Why Suso asked her colleagues for feedback when she left Just Eat
44:17 - 5 C’s of great people management
44:32 - 1: Care
45:30 - 2: Clarity
47:35 - 3. Calling it early
49:12 - 4. The cost of comfort
51:33 - 5: Constant feedback
53:25 - Suso’s advice to future CMOs

Jamie Domenici, CMO of Klaviyo, joins us to discuss why customer experience has become one of the most powerful drivers of growth. Drawing on lessons from nearly a decade at Salesforce and her experience joining Klaviyo just months before its IPO, Jamie shares how great brands create loyalty by obsessing over the customer.

We explore what marketers can learn from customer success teams, why events like Dreamforce are so memorable, and how Klaviyo has repositioned itself while building a competitive moat in an increasingly crowded market.

Jamie also shares her views on AI, the future workforce, the skills tomorrow's CMOs will need, and the difference between good marketing leaders and truly great ones.

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:05 - Jamie’s strange first job
02:26 - Best and worst customer experiences
05:56 - The power of a good customer experience
08:45 - Marketing lessons from customer success
11:48 - Marketing lessons from 10 years at Salesforce
13:05 - Why Dreamforce was a great example of good customer experience
14:46 - The key to a great keynote
21:56 - Joining Klaviyo just months before an IPO
24:28 - Repositioning a company
25:45 - How does B2C differ to B2B when it comes to CRM?
28:41 - How Klaviyo are building their moat
30:51 - Where is AI going to have the biggest impact?
32:19 - How are Klaviyo using AI in their product?
34:14 - How AI is going to change the workforce
35:42 - What skills will future CMOs be hiring for?
37:31 - The difference between a good CMO and a great CMO
39:17 - Why Klaviyo invest a lot in events
40:52 - The best advice Jamie has ever received

Anselmo Ramos is one of the most respected creatives in advertising and the co-founder of GUT, the agency behind some of the world's most talked-about campaigns. Built on the belief that brave creativity drives business growth, GUT has quickly become one of the industry's most successful modern agencies.

In this episode, Anselmo shares the story behind founding GUT, the principles that guide the business, and why marketers need to trust their instincts more. We discuss the power of relationships, how to build a great co-founder partnership, and why the biggest challenge often comes after success.

We also explore GUT's approach to pitching, the bravery gap facing modern brands, the role of AI, and the campaigns that have helped define the agency's remarkable rise.

Timestamps

00:00:00 - Start
00:02:44 - Why is the industry obsessed with making rational advertising?
00:04:19 - Why GUT have 68 principles
00:06:27 - Why you need to pay more attention to your GUT
00:09:10 - The GUT agency founding story
00:12:41 - The secret to a successful co-founder relationship
00:14:42 - Lessons from creating a successful agency
00:17:58 - The surprising challenges of growing a successful agency
00:20:14 - The compounding power of relationships
00:22:55 - GUT’s approach to pitching
00:29:26 - How to be productive and find inspiration
00:31:50 - The power of working without approval
00:36:26 - The bravery scale and the bravery gap
00:40:17 - How to become a brave brand
00:43:26 - Why brave creativity drives business results
00:45:52 - Why black t shirts?
00:49:09 - How GUT’s acquisition changed the business
00:56:21 - How to plan your exit strategy
00:59:29 - The Artois Probability: a Grand Prix winning campaign
01:03:55 - Wimbledon All White Stella Artois Can
01:05:59 - Stella Artois partnership with David Beckham
01:11:06 - Where Anselmo uses AI
01:13:53 - The best advice Anselmo has ever been given

Greg Hahn returns to the podcast to discuss the philosophy that has made Mischief one of the most talked-about agencies in the world.

From Tubi's famous Super Bowl interruption campaign to turning around legacy brands like JCPenney, Greg explains why the biggest risk brands face today isn't failure, it's being ignored. We discuss how to create safe spaces for dangerous ideas, why AI risks making marketers more cautious, and the hidden cost of playing it safe.

Greg also shares the traits of great CMOs, the future of agencies and pitching, the campaigns he's most proud of, and the advice he'd give to the next generation of creatives.

Thanks for System1 for supporting the podcast: https://system1group.com

Timestamps

00:00 - Start
01:43 - Who are Mischief and what do they stand for?
04:26 - What would Greg Hahn’s walk on track be?
05:05 - How to make a safe space for dangerous ideas
07:46 - Is AI making us play it safe?
10:37 - What is the real cost of playing it safe?
14:31 - The Mischief strategy behind Tubi
16:20 - Tubi’s famous Super Bowl interruption campaign
17:20 - The reward prediction error theory
22:16 - Turning around a large legacy business like JCPenney
25:55 - The traits of a successful CMO
28:06 - The JCPenney movie trailer
30:16 - Goldfish Chilean Sea Bass campaign
35:51 - Why Greg likes George Felix as a CMO
37:09 - The work that Greg is most proud of
38:03 - What does the future of pitching look like?
40:50 - How much of Mischief’s work comes from pitching
42:13 - The future of social media
43:17 - What other agency work is Greg envious of?
45:03 - What would Greg do if he wasn’t afraid?
48:01 - What does the future creative agency look like?
49:14 - What does the future CMO role look like?
51:12 - What does Greg want to achieve next?
53:29 - Greg’s advice for young creatives
54:25 - What’s the best advice Greg Hahn has ever been given?
56:59 - What content does Greg consume? - Post chat

George Felix, CMO of Chili’s, joins us to tell the story behind one of the most impressive brand turnarounds of recent years. From iconic menu items like chips and salsa and the famous margarita to viral social media moments and creative partnerships, George explains how Chili’s became culturally relevant again and reignited growth.

Before Chili’s, George played a key role in the legendary Old Spice turnaround, and in this episode he shares the lessons he's learned from transforming legacy brands. We discuss the power of nostalgia, making the most of your agency relationships, influencing product and pricing decisions, and why the customer experience often drives more value than advertising alone.

Timestamps

00:00:00 - Start
00:02:07 - The famous Chili’s chips and salsa
00:03:39 - The famous Chili’s margharita
00:06:32 - Why Chili’s has signature items
00:08:01 - How Chili’s became one of the biggest brand turnarounds in history
00:10:51 - The importance of working with people you trust
00:12:26 - George’s role in the Old Spice turnaround
00:18:10 - How to build the case for increased brand investment
00:21:16 - The power of nostalgia for a legacy brand
00:25:57 - How George pitched an idea to his creative agency and they bought it
00:29:03 - The System1 data for the Chili’s ad
00:30:45 - Fostering a great client / agency relationship
00:38:19 - How experience drives better ROI than marketing
00:42:43 - The viral cheese pull trend
00:45:45 - How can a brand create cultural relevance?
00:48:45 - Chili’s brand collaboration with Tecovas Boots
00:51:19 - How George has influence over the Product “P” in marketing
00:54:51 - How to leverage the Pricing “P”
00:57:43 - The concept of “barbell pricing”
01:00:27 - What is the most important attribute for a successful CMO?

Rory Sutherland and Tom Goodwin return for part two of our wide-ranging conversation on the future of marketing, creativity, and business.

From driverless cars and Silicon Valley thinking, to the dangers of digitising every human interaction, Rory and Tom explore what businesses lose when efficiency becomes the only goal. They also discuss why governments need creative departments, whether we truly understand how advertising works, and how marketers can finally gain the influence they deserve inside organisations.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Start
00:56 - What will be the advertising agency of the future?
10:39 - How to change the way we think about ad agencies
15:42 - Why the government need a creative department
19:44 - Creativity isn’t dead because AI only uses data from the past
22:32 - How marketers can achieve the influence they deserve
24:08 - Do we really know how advertising works?
29:29 - Is Tesla applying marketing thinking?
31:58 - The future of driverless cars and the danger of Silicon Valley
44:03 - Human interaction vs digitising everything
47:43 - Tom and Rory’s advice for CMOs

Two of our most popular guests return for a conversation on what’s gone wrong in modern marketing and how to fix it. Rory Sutherland and Tom Goodwin tackle everything from digital overload and bad choice architecture to the disappearance of taglines, long-term thinking, and genuine creativity.

Expect behavioural science, contrarian thinking, and plenty of ideas that will make you rethink how marketing really works.

Timestamps

00:00:00 - Start
00:01:31 - Digital overload - are consumers given too much choice?
00:05:51 - The power of “Easter Egg Thinking”
00:07:54 - Have hotels destroyed choice architecture?
00:10:56 - More choice reduction failures
00:14:46 - Do consumers need more choice?
00:17:45 - How ad agencies can discover real insights
00:19:21 - An idea to revolutionise Cannes
00:20:49 - Why Rory and Tom think differently
00:24:05 - What are the biggest marketing myths today
00:30:41 - Fat tailed distribution - the Dulux Dog
00:32:18 - Why we need to bring back the tagline
00:35:17 - Are marketers too young?
00:37:15 - The long term work only pays off after you’re fired
00:42:34 - How to we make companies look more long term?
00:48:03 - Why people love Ryanair but hate BA
00:49:09 - The role of surprise in advertising
00:50:43 - Is marketing actually rather easy?
01:00:49 - Is the advertising agency model broken?

Thank you to our sponsor, System1: https://system1group.com/

Jim Olson has spent his career helping businesses navigate moments of intense pressure from corporate crises to deeply personal challenges, running comms at United Airlines and Starbucks. In this episode, the author of Tailwind shares the lessons he’s learned from leadership, resilience, and facing adversity head-on.

Drawing inspiration from Captain Sully’s Hudson River landing, Jim explains why the best crisis leaders follow the same process: aviate, navigate, communicate. We discuss where crisis management often goes wrong, what leaders can learn from failures like United Airlines, and why “black box thinking” matters in both business and marketing.

Jim also opens up about his own cancer diagnosis and the mindset that helped him through it.

Get Jim's new book, Tailwind here:
https://www.amazon.com/Tailwind-Compass-Turning-Setback-Comeback/dp/B0GXCM3VYT/

00:00 - Start
01:11 - Lessons from Captain Sully’s Hudson River landing
06:11 - The black box thinking approach to marketing
07:30 - Other crises Jim has had to deal with in his career
09:18 - When crisis management goes wrong - United Airlines
13:11 - Managing merging two cultures
15:27 - The situation when Jim’s CEO had a heart attack
18:00 - Jim’s cancer diagnosis
23:30 - The power of positive mentality
28:30 - Don’t ask yourself what if, ask yourself why not
31:34 - The power of a fourth space
34:05 - Crisis doesn’t build character, it reveals it
37:02 - Leadership lessons from Howard Schultz
38:58 - Jim’s advice for those people facing a crisis